Clutch or Transmission help

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Clutch or Transmission help

Postby fisher » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:47 pm

I need help diagnosing a problem. First the facts 1965 Cyclone, early 70's 302, T-10 4sp of unknown origin. Tranny has approx 2000 miles on rebuild, complete clutch replacement (including T O bearing, flywheel surface, and pilot bushing) approx 1000 miles ago. I have just developed a VERY loud noise when depressing the clutch. Worse when cold, sometimes with tranny in neutral but much louder and longer in reverse or first. Not like any TO bearing or pilot bushing failure I have ever heard. Lower sound than a pilot bushing and rougher than a TO bearing and much louder than either. It came on suddenly. I have not experienced a tranny input bearing failure so do not know what that sounds like. Noise is loud enough that other cars at a stop light can hear it. Not sure it applies but have had to battle clutch chatter since replacing the clutch and thought I had it fixed then this started. HELP!
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby poboyjo65 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:41 pm

Did you use a cheap clutch kit?
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby fisher » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:04 pm

I suppose it would be considered lower cost, but was bought at a reputable local rebuilder.
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby fisher » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:09 pm

I would also appreciate hearing what specific part you think is failing.
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby poboyjo65 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:47 pm

I dont have a clue. sounds like something broke somewhere. But I put the oreilys/autozone special on a truck,on a 6 cyl & later a 302 & both seem to chatter & shudder fairly early in their life. but I haven't opened up either one to look.
the fulcrum that the fork attaches to can break, but this usually throws the clutch out of adjustment. You might try a section of garden hose 5-6 ' long & use as a stethoscope. It works very well to pin point noises. I'd want a very trustworthy friend to operate the clutch while you probe around trying to find the source of the noise.
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby Lou's Comet » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:09 pm

fisher wrote:I need help diagnosing a problem. First the facts 1965 Cyclone, early 70's 302, T-10 4sp of unknown origin. Tranny has approx 2000 miles on rebuild, complete clutch replacement (including T O bearing, flywheel surface, and pilot bushing) approx 1000 miles ago. I have just developed a VERY loud noise when depressing the clutch. Worse when cold, sometimes with tranny in neutral but much louder and longer in reverse or first. Not like any TO bearing or pilot bushing failure I have ever heard. Lower sound than a pilot bushing and rougher than a TO bearing and much louder than either. It came on suddenly. I have not experienced a tranny input bearing failure so do not know what that sounds like. Noise is loud enough that other cars at a stop light can hear it. Not sure it applies but have had to battle clutch chatter since replacing the clutch and thought I had it fixed then this started. HELP!


Could you describe the noise? Grinding, Squealling, whining,??

Don't think it would be input bearing, no load on bearing when clutch pedal is pressed.

Any noise when pedal is released and car is in motion?

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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby poboyjo65 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:37 pm

Lou's Comet wrote:
fisher wrote:I need help diagnosing a problem. First the facts 1965 Cyclone, early 70's 302, T-10 4sp of unknown origin. Tranny has approx 2000 miles on rebuild, complete clutch replacement (including T O bearing, flywheel surface, and pilot bushing) approx 1000 miles ago. I have just developed a VERY loud noise when depressing the clutch. Worse when cold, sometimes with tranny in neutral but much louder and longer in reverse or first. Not like any TO bearing or pilot bushing failure I have ever heard. Lower sound than a pilot bushing and rougher than a TO bearing and much louder than either. It came on suddenly. I have not experienced a tranny input bearing failure so do not know what that sounds like. Noise is loud enough that other cars at a stop light can hear it. Not sure it applies but have had to battle clutch chatter since replacing the clutch and thought I had it fixed then this started. HELP!


Could you describe the noise? Grinding, Squealling, whining,??

Don't think it would be input bearing, no load on bearing when clutch pedal is pressed.

Any noise when pedal is released and car is in motion?

Lou


One thing that comes to mind. when I got my comet it had a noise , & also worse when cold & reverse & 1st. turned out my motor mounts were shot & the motor was leaning letting the fan hit on the lower radiator outlet,was hitting the hose clamp. the tip of the fan had marks as well as the clamp. I thought it was the clutch at first,since thats when I heard it .
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby vicegrip » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:02 am

The disc getting thinner from wear and the springs hitting the flywheel bolts? Aftermarket flywheel bolts and the heads are too thick which are contacting the disc? Or spring out of position or broken and hitting bolts? Disc in backwards? Pressure plate or flywheel bolts too long and the crank thrust worn some and the bolts are finally contacting the block? Too much material removed from flywheel? Probably none of these...just throwing it out there. Have seen all of this happen,however.
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby fisher » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:31 am

Lou's comet, Noise is hard to explain as stated in my first post. Very loud like nothing I have heard before. Not a squeal or grinding sound. Much lowerfrequency.
Vicegrip, Hard to believe it is wear at 1000 mi but could have broken something. It is a three lever arm design clutch.

Appreciate your input!!!!!
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby Lou's Comet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:36 am

fisher wrote:Lou's comet, Noise is hard to explain as stated in my first post. Very loud like nothing I have heard before. Not a squeal or grinding sound. Much lowerfrequency.
Vicegrip, Hard to believe it is wear at 1000 mi but could have broken something. It is a three lever arm design clutch.

Appreciate your input!!!!!


Ok, need to narrow it down a little, does the noise only happen when the clutch pedal is depressed??

Any noise when you are driving it, in any of the gears with foot off clutch pedal- clutch pedal released?

Do you have noise when the car is running sitting still in neutral with the clutch pedal released?

Lou
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby Lou's Comet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:48 am

poboyjo65 wrote:One thing that comes to mind. when I got my comet it had a noise , & also worse when cold & reverse & 1st. turned out my motor mounts were shot & the motor was leaning letting the fan hit on the lower radiator outlet,was hitting the hose clamp. the tip of the fan had marks as well as the clamp. I thought it was the clutch at first,since thats when I heard it .


Did it make the noise only when pedal was depressed?

If his comet only makes noise when the clutch pedal is depressed then I would think it is something in the bell housing. T/O bearing, PP, front bearing retainer, fork, etc.

For some reason I am thinking it may have a problem with front bearing retainer but just a wild guess. Really need more info.

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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby fisher » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:36 pm

I'll try to to answer your questions as best I can. The loud noise only occurs when the clutch is depressed. I am getting some whirring sound letting off the throttle at highway speeds or just revving the engine while sitting in neutral , but not nearly the noise as when depressing the clutch for reverse or first gear . No noise when still and clutch released. No noise when accelerating or at constant speeds. I hope all this makes sense.
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby Lou's Comet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:44 pm

fisher wrote:I'll try to to answer your questions as best I can. The loud noise only occurs when the clutch is depressed. I am getting some whirring sound letting off the throttle at highway speeds or just revving the engine while sitting in neutral , but not nearly the noise as when depressing the clutch for reverse or first gear . No noise when still and clutch released. No noise when accelerating or at constant speeds. I hope all this makes sense.


If the loud noise only occurs when clutch is depressed I would guess TO bearing. When you depress the clutch you disengage the trans so nothing should be spinning in trans. Also the clutch plate should no longer be spinning.

Now if the PP is not disengaging completely the clutch plate could be dragging but don't think that is your noise.

If one of the fingers broke or bent on the PP that could also cause some noise,TO bearing would be cocked, but not a typical problem like a TO bearing.

When you depress the clutch pedal the TO bearing is pushing on the three fingers of the PP and needs to spin freely at same speed as engine and PP. if the TO bearing is faulty this is when they make noise.

As far as the whirring noise that could also be your TO bearing or your front bearing in trans.

Do you have a lot of free play in the clutch pedal? If not the TO bearing could be riding on the PP fingers a little and spinning some causing the whirring noise.

IMO you need to pull it apart and replace the TO bearing, but before I pulled it apart I would loosen up the adjustment on the clutch pedal to give it more free play just to see if that takes away the whirring noise or affects the whirring noise at all. I am assuming you have a good spring on the fork to pull the TO bearing away from PP when clutch pedal is released.

When apart check the front bearing retainer on trans to make sure it is not cracked or bent and that the TO bearing moves on it smoothly, also check to make sure the fork is good and it also moves smoothly so that the TO bearing is not binding on the front bearing retainer.

My guess is TO bearing

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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby fisher » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:10 pm

Thank you for our advice. Guess Ill have to drop the tranny and clutch to find out what the issue may be. I feel confident inspecting the clutch parts for damage but not so much on the tranny input bearing. It will not be an easy job and its cold on the garage floor right now. These old bones don't get up and down on the floor the way they used too. I'll update you all when I definitely find the issue.
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Re: Clutch or Transmission help

Postby Rocket989 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:45 pm

Fisher - After hearing more I gotta agree with Lou on the TO bearing. I hear ya on the cold concrete!! Grab a big square of cardboard or carpet (my preference is cardboard since it & everything on it slides easier!) and a “milk barn” heater to take some of the cold out!
'cause Johno says you gotta have a sig pic!! :)
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