Windshield pillar to vent window gap excessively large...

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Windshield pillar to vent window gap excessively large...

Postby kevinshi » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:27 am

I have a body issue on my 1965 convertible that perhaps someone else has come across… if so any advice/suggestions would be very welcomed...

The gap between the windshield pillar and quarter window on the passenger side is excessive. I have manipulated every conceivable adjustment point to correct this – both door hinges (on body and in door) and quarter window fasteners. I have spent hours (and hours and hours) trying to correct this (I am obsessive) - all the while being careful to maintain reasonable forward gap between the door and fender. The gap is so large I cannot imagine that is how it looked when it left Lorraine.

Until now my hack fix has been to double up the seal on the passenger side (I cut off the flexible portion of an old seal then used the remaining hard base underneath a new seal - effectively making the seal ~1/8" thicker than it is supposed to be).

However I now have my car stripped and I will be doing some body work before painting. To wit: Now is the time to finally correct this nagging issue. However I can't fix this when I don't know what the problem is exactly...

One theory I have is that my windshield pillar is too “tall” on that side. When I measure the (naked) floor pan to the (naked) pillar I am finding the passenger side is 37” exactly and the drivers is 36.75”. It doesn’t seem like .25 inches would cause the effect I am seeing... and its hard to imagine a collision scenario that would cause the pillar to "rise" away from the floor pad...

A second theory is that the door on that side was damaged and/or replaced. Perhaps the replacement door had different tolerances on how far forward the quarter window slides relative to the leading edge of the door. I have not looked at this carefully but I wonder if I could correct for this by modifying the door a bit (I can’t remember just now whether the forward slide limitation was a function of the window channel or the fasteners in the door).

A third theory is that the fender on that side was damaged/replaced and was sitting to far rearward. This would then "push" the door back (given a reasonable gap). I'm a bit skeptical that would be my problem because the gap at rear edge of the door is about right (e.g. I worry that if I try to really push the door forward I will end up with an excessive gap where the door latches).

Anyone out there struggled with this issue already or otherwise have any theories?
Last edited by kevinshi on Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kevin
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Re: Windshield pillar to quarter window gap excessively larg

Postby bigdan » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:41 am

When you say "quarter window" i'm assuming you mean the vent window on the door? If so, the frame for the vent window has a fairly large amount of adjustment; the factory manual has decent pics of where the adjustment is. If you don't have it available I can snap a pic later on today.

Dan
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Re: Windshield pillar to quarter window gap excessively larg

Postby kevinshi » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:04 pm

Sorry, yes, I mean the vent window. Man I get my terminology screwed up all the time...

I am super familiar with the adjustment points... long story but I have now removed and reinstalled (and readjusted) these windows 4 times. I've manipulated the crud out of them... I am pretty convinced my issue is not a matter of normal adjustments (as I've exhausted them all long ago).

That said it can't hurt to see the illustration you are talking about - I suspect I already have it but perhaps not. So yes, please send me a pic when you have a moment.

Thanks!
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Re: Windshield pillar to vent window gap excessively large..

Postby bigdan » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:25 pm

If you've had them in and out 4 times I'd say you're familiar with them for sure. That being said, I got all 4 bolts started and snuggled then a little at a time, and finally got it dialed in satisfactory to me. Maybe this will help -

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Dan
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Re: Windshield pillar to vent window gap excessively large..

Postby Lou's Comet » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:22 pm

Is the gap uniform from top to bottom? Same width? Or does it get wider at the top, or bottom?

They are a pain to get right on hardtop's and even more a pain on verts. What is the condition of the car rust wise? I have seen mustangs with bad inner rockers that were bad enough to screw the door gaps.

The other thing that comes to mind is the vent windows also have a adjustment for in/out. You can tilt the angle of the vent window. Where it bolts to car they are studs with double nuts, you can adjust the length of the stud to change the angle of the vent. Pretty sure stud has provision for Allen wrench built into it for adjusting. If you haven't already tried this it may help.

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Re: Windshield pillar to vent window gap excessively large..

Postby kevinshi » Thu May 09, 2019 11:09 pm

Lou's Comet wrote:Is the gap uniform from top to bottom? Same width? Or does it get wider at the top, or bottom?Lou

The gap on the top is a bit wider than the gap on the bottom. This lack of uniformity makes me think that the gap would go away if I was to have the body shop bend the pillar down to match the drivers side (so about ~¼ inch pull down while using the the bottom of the pillar as a pivot point - resulting in a more gap closure at top than at bottom).

However I worry that I will be screwing up the fit to the convertible frame either at the pillar or the header on that side (though arguably there is plenty of bend in the convertible frame to compensate). Alternatively I worry I could screw up the windshield fit (though arguably there is plenty of play in the windshield seal to compensate).

Any comments about my concerns? (Ahem, anyone want to give me confidence I won't be screwing up something else by bending my pillar? ;-))

It would be awesome to have the measurements off another car (from a naked floorplan). Even better to have a factory spec. E.g. some schematic or diagram with dimensions. I presume the factory was shooting for some specific distance between the top of the pillar and the floorplan. As said above, for my driver’s side (that has a nicely tolerant gap) that measurement is 26.75” whereas my passenger side is 27”. Does anyone know where I might find some kind of reference materials that would tell me something like this? Some kind of 'body dimensions specification illustration' or some such?

Lou's Comet wrote: What is the condition of the car rust wise? I have seen mustangs with bad inner rockers that were bad enough to screw the door gaps.Lou

Excellent condition. Very little rust on my car and the rockers are really (really) solid. However I am fairly certain my car was in an accident that saw the passenger side fender pretty hoarked (the fender seems to have been replaced). So I believe there was some real damage done to this area of the car… though I can’t quite figure out a scenario where the pillar would rise.

Lou's Comet wrote:The other thing that comes to mind is the vent windows also have a adjustment for in/out. You can tilt the angle of the vent window. Where it bolts to car they are studs with double nuts, you can adjust the length of the stud to change the angle of the vent. Pretty sure stud has provision for Allen wrench built into it for adjusting. If you haven't already tried this it may help.Lou

Oh yea, I'm super familiar with those adjustment points. :-) I've monkeyed with them so much trying to sort this... to the point that I've pulled the vent windows so far forward that the components reward no longer fit well (e.g. the main glass and/or quarter glass end up with gaps). I have also played with the door – throwing it farther forward (creating a nasty gap with the rear quarter panel) and the pitching the fender back (creating a nasty gap to the cowl).

bigdan wrote:Maybe this will help [above illustration]

Yes, I do have that illustration already (but thanks for posting it in any case).
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