65 Futura in East TN . . .

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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby Lou's Comet » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:06 pm

bigdan wrote:Troubleshooting continues . . . . .

Finally took the 65 out to test the new adjustments. The vibration that appears to have originated from the driveshaft is gone, or barely noticeable, but now other issues seem to be arising. I do still have a slight vibe on acceleration, and a fairly steady one at 70-75 mph also.

For the acceleration vibe, plan is to pull the driveshaft and get balance checked, especially since there are no weights on it. I'm debating on motor and tranny mounts as well. Any recommendations on motor mounts - preferably something more rigid than the stock rubber? Trans mount ideas? Currently using a stock 68-69 Bronco mount - hey, it was the right height!

As for the high speed vibe. I'm thinking that could be a rotor or wheel; kind of curious if my trim rings could be throwing it off a bit.

Keep in mind these aren't ridiculous vibrations, but any one of us would notice. Any pointers are welcome -

Thanks for looking -

Dan


I agree with John, Tomb, and mike that the angles should match. And will set mine the same.

Not all pinions are centered with the trans, so you want to check those angles to. Which is hard to explain but if you look at the picture at the end of the page on this link you will get what I am saying. The angles being talked about are the ones from the side view in the picture, the angles from the top view in picture are also important.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/8.html
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby tomb22 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm

I had a garage balance the tires once and ended up with a vibration. Took them someplace else and they found the tires where not balanced very good. After re-balancing them the problem went away. Just a thought.
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:20 am

Lou - it's a centered pinion. I already checked it out :mrgreen: . Angles are correct on the driveline now, so if there is any further issue with the driveshaft it would have to be a balance issue. I thought about doing the old hose clamp check, but I called the driveline shop that built the driveshaft for me and they'll check it no problem, so we'll go ahead and rule that out also.

Tomb, I've been pondering the same thing. Right now I think I'll pull the wheels tonight and do a run out on the rotors first then go from there.

Again, I may be being a little picky, but this car was built for the road, so I'll keep tweaking till I'm happy. It's not bad, but I notice, so we'll keep chasing it.

Thanks for looking -

Dan
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby Jims65cyclone » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:24 pm

bigdan wrote:I do still have a slight vibe on acceleration, and a fairly steady one at 70-75 mph also.

As for the high speed vibe. I'm thinking that could be a rotor or wheel; kind of curious if my trim rings could be throwing it off a bit.


The 70-75 mph sounds too fast for it to be a tire balance or roundness issue. That usually shows up around 55-65 mph, depending on the diameter of the tire, but it can also be impacted by the natural frequency of the spring. The 55-65 rule of thumb is for stock springs, which err on the side of comfort rather than performance. If your springs are stiffer (higher rate) or shorter than stock springs, that could affect the speed at which bouncing, or vibration, can occur, so it might be a tire problem even at 75 mph. Do you feel it more through the steering wheel, or through the seat/body of the car? That can point you to a front wheel or rear wheel problem. Roundness can have as much or more of an affect on vibration as balance. Try jacking each wheel up just off the floor, place a reference object (screwdriver handle, etc.) on the floor 1/4" from the tread and rotate the tire while you watch the gap between the tread and reference. Do the same for the inside and outside sidewalls. You should have less than 1/8" variation in the gap around the circumference of the tire. More than that could mean a casing issue with the tire, or bent rim. If it's a tire, I'd expect it to be more of a constant speed vibration than an acceleration vibration. I think the acceleration vibration is still linked somehow to the drive train. Anyway, JMO, and worth every penny you paid for it. :roll:

Jim
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:42 am

Jim -

The 75mph vibe seems to be coming from behind me, if that makes sense. The acceleration vibe seems to be driveline, only under acceleration. Again, these are minimal to the point that 8/10 people wouldn't even notice, but it drives me crazy - and I love figuring stuff like this out.

I pulled the driveshaft yesterday and it's at the shop getting checked, so we'll rule that out. Just in case it's a mount issue, I grabbed a set of Ron Morris motor mounts and a poly trans mount to minimize movement there as well. I'll check tires and rotors this weekend.

This is all just fine tuning, but I'm having fun doing it. And realizing, that at some point, I need a lift!

Thanks for your input, fellas-

Dan
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:48 am

Latest revision in chasing these little vibrations - I'm determined to find them!

Dropped my driveshaft off last week with the fella that built it. He claimed it was perfect - but - when I picked it up the next day there was a new dab of weld on each end . .

Also, in an effort to match engine to pinion angles, the engine needs to come down, trans needs to come up to be around 3*. That would get me to an ideal angle to match the pinion and have both u- joints in spec. So, adjustable motor mounts should lower the engine 1/2", poly trans bushing (should firm things up a bit as well). Only real negative is lowering the engine will most likely require I "adjust" my lower tower brace, or do away with it. We'll see how it goes - rainy day here anyway!

Gotta get this old 65 tuned in and right before I attempt that 100 mile run up to PF in June!

Closer every day . . .

Dan

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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Motor mounts and trans mount are swapped, driveshaft installed.

Again, the only negative thus far is my lower brace interferes with the oil pan now, so I'll have to rework that. Shouldn't hurt to drive without it for a little while I hope. Anyone see any difference without it?

Haven't really found a smoking gun yet for the vibration, but we'll try to dial in the driveline angles tomorrow with the engine lowered 1/2" and then go for a quick test run.

On an odd note, had to pull the oil filter to replace the LH mount, and this was the 3rd - yep, 3rd - Motorcraft FL-1A oil filter in a row to stick the gasket to the block. Anyone else have that issue? Hand tight + 1/2 turn, yes.

Thanks for looking -

Dan
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby SASSY » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:34 pm

I wouldn't worry about the brace. I circle tracked a 65 Falcon no bracing in front of firewall without a problem and it was one of the fastest cars in my division.
Fred
I'd rather do it myself if it's done right or not,,,isn't that what hotrodding is all about?
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby tomb22 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:45 pm

I never heard of hand tight + 1/2 turn. I was told (hand tight only) way back and that's all I've done. I've never had a leak and I always have to use a wrench to get it off.
Just saying :)

tom
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:01 am

Fred - Good to know! I've always thought they were a little over kill since the engine ties it together anyway.

Tom, that's just been my practice since I can't remember when. No other filters I use on other vehicles separate, though.

More tweaking today . . .

Dan
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby poboyjo65 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:20 am

Dan I'm sure you rub a generous amount of oil on the seal & block when you put the filter on, right? I dont count 1/2 turn either. just snug it good,then loosen it up to see how it feels ,then retighten less or more,depending how it felt when I loosened it. I tend to over tighten it the first try.

main reason I wanted a under engine brace was to have a place to jack up the whole front end. it's one of my favorite mods it's so handy. I welded on a sliver of 4'' pipe to fit in the saddle of the floor jack.
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby SASSY » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:32 am

poboyjo65 wrote:Dan I'm sure you rub a generous amount of oil on the seal & block when you put the filter on, right? I dont count 1/2 turn either. just snug it good,then loosen it up to see how it feels ,then retighten less or more,depending how it felt when I loosened it. I tend to over tighten it the first try.

main reason I wanted a under engine brace was to have a place to jack up the whole front end. it's one of my favorite mods it's so handy. I welded on a sliver of 4'' pipe to fit in the saddle of the floor jack.
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Lol That thing would be in the ground on my car! Lol
I have come up with something similar though. I can just get the floor jack under the air scoop, I then slip a piece of onto the jack that wedges itself in place to allow safe lifting.i
As far as filters go, I've always tightened it contact plus 3/4 s. May have had a gasket come off but don't remember, never any leaks. Doesn't it even say plus 3/4 on the filter?
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:10 am

I like that idea, johnno. May have to see what I can come up with.

And Fred, you're right! I never even looked at the box :mrgreen:

Dan

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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:10 pm

Well, some how, some way, we seem to have gotten to where we were headed! Swapped engine and trans mount this weekend, lowered the engine 1/2" and shimmed the trans up another 1/8", adjusted the pinion up another 1.5*, took it for a 25 mile run around and - POW. We've got it. Pulls strong and vibe free finally, other than little old car creaks, groans, and rattles, that is. Still had that tiny pull left, added half a turn on the RH strut and all was well. Now to put some serious miles on and see what needs tweaked next!

Dan
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Re: 65 Futura in East TN . . .

Postby bigdan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:52 am

The little 65 made its first "daily driver" run today, meaning the first run where I haven't been considering it still in break- in mode. 25 miles to work one way, but mysteriously that 5 a.m. drive took a little longer . . . . . I might have gone the long way :mrgreen: After tripping over this little car in the shop for several years I forget how small it actually is, but at least it made me less nervous parking at work.

All in all it did well; only issue I had was the headlights could definitely be brighter. I knew they were nothing like my other drivers as far as brightness, so when I aligned the headlights I aimed the high beams just a little ahead of standard low beams and used them instead. So, I'm studying on ways to get a little brighter headlights, but still with integrated turn signals. Looking at possible LED bulbs like these -

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Delta-01 ... 39138.html

As far as I can tell, they wouldn't require a relay or any additional wiring, but might need a hole drilled in the back of the bucket. Still studying on it, though. Anyone have any experience either way?

Just continuing to enjoy putting some miles on the old girl!

More later -

Dan
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