65 Futura in East TN . . .

[Lou's Comet]

Ill start by saying if i'm driving, it'll cruise all day at 182 or so. I started the engine with a 1300 cfm electric fan controlled by a 175-185 switch. Cruising in winter temps, the fan would kick on if I sat in traffic for a while, but then kick back off once I started driving. If I left it idling, it would never kick off. So . . . Bigger fan. Stepped up to a 2500 cfm fan, same 175-185 temp switch. Still sits rock steady at 180-182 driving around. If I sit a minute in traffic, it'll turn the fan on at 193-194 and shut off once i'm moving around again, but idling in the shop it'll still never turn off.

In my mind, I think the fan should at least be able to pull itself down and shut itself down at idle. So, should I step up to a 185-195 switch? Is my idea of keeping it around 180 too low? What's the general consensus on a warmed over 331 standard operating temp - 190? 200? I just want to get this dialed in before I start some serious road time.

Any input is fine by me . . . . .

Dan

I don't see how that would help get the results you want. For the fan to pull itself down sitting at idle.

The temp switch 175-185 you have now fan turns on around 193-194 and for the fan to shut off you need temp to drop to 183-184, (10 degree lower?) and with the cooling setup you have now it is not capable to lower the temp 10 degree siting still idling.

Now if you go to a 185 -195 the fan should kick on around 203-204? Switch is ten degree higher? And kick off around 193-194? Your cooling setup will still need to pull the temp down 10 degree for fan to kick off. And if your fan doesn't do that now sitting idling I don't see how it would do it at higher temp?

What does temp go to/peak when sitting in shop idling? What temp thermostat in engine?

Lou

[bigdan]

Lou, it's a 185 or 190 thermostat I believe.

My thought on going from the 175-185 switch up to the 185-195 switch is based on the fact that it'll pull down to 180-182 in the shop, it just won't pull below that. I took it on a drive today and kept the rpms up a bit and pulled into the shop at 195, fan kicked on just as I pulled in. It pulled it right down to 180 and sat there, couldn't get that last few degrees to open the switch.

On that note, thoughts on "normal" temp for a warmed over aluminum headed small block?

Dan

[poboyjo65]

I have seen some aftermarket set ups on 4x4s where the temp sensor was in the lower rad hose. seemed weird at first but it may be better for certain instances.
I had this same 347 in a truck with the same alum cross flow rad with a flex alite 3300 cmf fan & it would shut off for a few seconds at idle, but not long & it kicks back on. It may be a little wider than your rad, it's about an inch wider than the framerails on both sides. I had the temp sensor in the top hose like you do Dan. It was kind of annoying it kicking off & on so much. I think if I was still using that set up I might research the lower hose sensor set up ,might be easier to get set like you want it. I went to a manual fan because the electric one was too thick.

I like a 180° therm,cool but still good warm heater.

[bigdan]

I have seen some aftermarket set ups on 4x4s where the temp sensor was in the lower rad hose. seemed weird at first but it may be better for certain instances.
I had this same 347 in a truck with the same alum cross flow rad with a flex alite 3300 cmf fan & it would shut off for a few seconds at idle, but not long & it kicks back on. It may be a little wider than your rad, it's about an inch wider than the framerails on both sides. I had the temp sensor in the top hose like you do Dan. It was kind of annoying it kicking off & on so much. I think if I was still using that set up I might research the lower hose sensor set up ,might be easier to get set like you want it.

I like a 180° therm,cool but still good warm heater.

Johnno - my gage sensor is in the top hose; the temp switch is in the intake manifold. Haven't thought about the sender in the hose but i'll definitely give it some thought.

The good thing is this is a minor detail in the big picture. While I really don't want a 19a draw continuously, I did, in a bit of forethought, wire a toggle switch for power and an emergency run toggle switch also. In reality, that's really the only large electric load, and even with the heat blasting the 100a alternator still puts out plenty.

I just want the dang thing to turn off !!!!!

Dan

[Lou's Comet]

Lou, it's a 185 or 190 thermostat I believe.

My thought on going from the 175-185 switch up to the 185-195 switch is based on the fact that it'll pull down to 180-182 in the shop, it just won't pull below that. I took it on a drive today and kept the rpms up a bit and pulled into the shop at 195, fan kicked on just as I pulled in. It pulled it right down to 180 and sat there, couldn't get that last few degrees to open the switch.

On that note, thoughts on "normal" temp for a warmed over aluminum headed small block?

Dan

IMO your temps are fine. Once the engine is broke in may even come down a little??

If you have a 185 or 195 thermostat that might stop it from pulling down? If it is say 185 then when it pulls down to 180 then the thermostat would be closing?? And if it is 195 then it would be closed even before?

I see what you mean by going up on the switch, if it goes down to 180 the fan would switch off, because of higher switch, but if thermostat is closed fan shutting off wouldn't be for long. I would try a 180 thermostat first.

Lou

[bigdan]

Lou - After digging through my receipts/ manuals/ parts list for the 331, I was off; it appears i'm running a 180F thermostat. Quick phone call to the local box stores shows they carry a 160F model; may give that a try, or I could order a 170F. The 160F would be quickest and should show me as definitive difference to know if i'm headed in the right direction.

Started the slow process of getting the electric choke settings dialed in also. Holley was kind of "safe" on their settings (2000 rpm for about 10 minutes!) so it needs a little tweaking. 1 notch on the choke dropped the high idle but about 2 minutes, and a 1/4 turn on the high idle put me around 1700-1800 rpm. Shooting for 1400-1500 for 5 minutes or so, but I wait a day or two between tweaks to make sure she's cooled down.

Supposed to rain most of the week here, so i'm dialing in alignment and a few more interior items.

More later -

Dan

[poboyjo65]

Dan I have a fan controller. I was talking about the one that tells the controller to turn fan off & on,it looks like a gauge sensor . Some of them have a probe that you stick thru the fins of the radiator.

On another truck I have a nice elec fan with controller & with dual variable speed fans capable of 4600 cfm,, it runs @ 60% & will kick back off fairly soon at idle. & very quiet. but if it gets 10° hotter than normal it will kick it on 100%. It never does kick on the 100% under normal conditions. it does have a way to test it so you can hear what 100% sounds like. It pulls 28 a on 100% ,so probably about the same 17a on 60%, but never had a problem with the stock alt on the truck,( I think it was a 60a alt?)

So from what I understand you dont have a controller? just a switch? I would suggest getting an adjustable controller if you want to dial it in perfect. it has a little knob on it to set how you want it,& could be used with different thermostats. most of them have 160-240° adjustability. & some have the rad probe & some have a sensor type.I like the sensor type better.

[bigdan]

Johnno - I looked into the controllers a bit last night. Currently i'm running a simple relay / temp switch setup. The power wire - for whatever reason - goes from the fuse block, up to the instrument panel, then back to the fuse block out to the relay. I switched it at the dash to kill power if needed, then added a switch and ground before the temp sender as an "emergency run" in case the sender failed. It all functions correctly, but it won't be 25 degrees this summer! Lol

I'll look into the controller a little more and dabble with a 160 t-stat.

Thanks for looking -

Dan

[Lou's Comet]

Lou - After digging through my receipts/ manuals/ parts list for the 331, I was off; it appears i'm running a 180F thermostat. Quick phone call to the local box stores shows they carry a 160F model; may give that a try, or I could order a 170F. The 160F would be quickest and should show me as definitive difference to know if i'm headed in the right direction.

Dan

If you already have a 180 IMO I wouldn't go lower. A 160 may drop the temp enough to get the fan to shut off at idle but not going to be great for the engine or performance. Since you already have the 180 themostat I would try the 185-195 switch.

I was assuming you were calling the controller a switch, but all a controller does is controls when the fan turns on and shuts off. If your switch setup is already doing that going to a controller may not help. It may clean up the wiring some and add adjustability so you can change the temps fan goes on and off,(which would help see if you could get fan to shut down on idle) going to the 185-195 switch would do the same and might be easier/cheaper since you are already wired/setup for the switch.

In my opinion your temps are fine, even if they go up some they would still be fine. Think ford ran 192 or 195 thermostats from the factory in the small blocks. So 195+ temp would still be fine. And may run a little better,

The problem I see is you want the fan to pull down the temp and shut off sitting at idle. And I think it can be done but also think it will cycle, on-off-on-off-on-off etc. which may be more irritating ??

As Fred said you no longer have the air movement from the car moving. Sitting still you need the fan to move the air thru the rad to cool, at speed you don't really need the fan as much if at all. Your trying to get the fan to shut off when it is needed the most?

Lou

[bigdan]

Lou - Good points for sure. I haven't done anything yet, my true goal is just to shake down everything I can before the 95 degree TN summer temps get here!

My thought is that during the winter when it's in the 30's, the fan, with the car sitting at idle with the hood closed, should be able to pull temp down enough to shut off. Again, at idle, sitting still. I'm still pondering which direction to take while I dial in my alignment this week.

Then again, outside ambient temps may not play much of a role anyway.

Still, i'm just dialing it all in so I can daily drive this old girl for a few weeks to get it broken in good before cruising time!

Dan

[bigdan]

It's been a fun few afternoons after work also, by the way, teaching my oldest the finer points of alignment . I set it close with a square and tape to get the old girl on the road, and it tracked straight and drove ok, but with the tires i'm using rotating isn't an option, and no shops close will take the time to do it right. So, our goal is -0.5 camber, 2.5 caster, and 1/8" toe, all while trying to teach a 16 year old. It's not been bad so far, and I think he's catching on, so he can add another skill to his repertoire, as they say. Fun, fun, fun.

Moving along -

Dan

[Jims65cyclone]

Dan...that 1/8" toe-in might be a little much on your car. I'm thinking you completely rebuilt everything under the front end of that car, so it should be good and tight with very little "slack" in it. 1/16" should be enough for a tight suspension. The purpose of toe-in on a rear wheel drive car is to bring the front wheels into straight-ahead alignment as the car is pushed forward and any slack is pushed toward the rear of the car. On front wheel drive cars you set it toe-out because the slack is pulled toward the front of the car as the front wheels pull it down the road.
Jim

[bigdan]

I see what you're saying, Jim. I was shooting for the Shelby settings and Opentracker recommendations, but i'll definitely fine tune it in after getting it back on the road.

Due to my trim rings on the 17" wheels, my caster/ camber gauge won't attach, so back to Pop's favorite trailer wheels! Believe it or not, they're the same height,
so they should work perfectly for caster and camber. I'll set toe with the 17's. The trim rings will come off, of course, but not without damaging the paint enough to require a repaint. We've started adjustments, but after mounting the white wheels again, the wife and sons are pushing me to repaint the black wheels white. Thoughts?

On a different note, dealing with a sudden serious, unexpected health issue, so we'll be in a holding pattern for a week or two. I'll be back on it soon enough I hope.



Thanks for looking -

Dan

[SASSY]

Hey Dan, hope your health prob is cleared up quick!
On wheel colour, although I'm not a fan of white wheels 'cept maybe on some stock cars I think they should have some colour.
To me the wheels are too cool to hide behind rings, a lighter charcoal so they stand out a bit center caps and go. Just my opinion you have built a great car enjoy.
Fred

[bigdan]

Hey Dan, hope your health prob is cleared up quick!
On wheel colour, although I'm not a fan of white wheels 'cept maybe on some stock cars I think they should have some colour.
To me the wheels are too cool to hide behind rings, a lighter charcoal so they stand out a bit center caps and go. Just my opinion you have built a great car enjoy.
Fred

I had to toss the idea out there Fred! Here's hoping this issue gets resolved quick too. I'll be back to it as soon as I can.

Dan