Heating and Air Conditioning

[deusamo]

Okay, so I'm daily driving my new Comet (http://www.cometcentral.com/forum/viewt ... 25&t=13215) and it is dang cold. I drove to work today with a shirt, sweater, jacket and snuggie. And I was still cold. This is my first classic car, so I might be missing something incredibly obvious. Like...is there something that draws fresh air into the cabin that might be wide open and I'm not aware of it? Both the doors under the dash are closed. The one on the right has to be for the heater and blower motor, but I don't quite know what the one of the left is for. I don't have a garage, and it's cold outside. So I haven't had a lot of time to monkey around and get familiar with things. Anyway...

I'm working on weatherstripping. I got the drivers side done. It's not pretty, but it seals. I'll get the passenger side very soon. The car also does not have a headliner, or a rear seat, or much insulation in the rear. I plan on changing all of that. The heater does blow hot air, but it's not super hot, and there's not much of it. And the blower motor makes a good bit of noise if I turn it up to high.

Okay, so that's the background for my questions. Here goes...

1.) Are the heaters in these cars just really inefficient? I was thinking of maybe replacing it with something, maybe like this (http://smile.amazon.com/Maradyne-MM-A10 ... B006J60THI) or this (http://smile.amazon.com/Vintage-Air-506 ... 052&sr=1-1). But I was wondering if replacing the blower motor would just fix my problem.

2.) While we're at it, if I'm going to replace the heater...should I replace it with something that is compatible with A/C as well since I plan on adding that at some point? Maybe something like this (http://smile.amazon.com/Vintage-Air-680 ... 002VW7H92/). The car is running a 2.3L from a '93 Ranger, so it's not quite as straightforward as most would be. But I'm thinking that I should be able to cobble together the parts from a Ranger for the engine side of the A/C and connect them to this and things should work...right? I've never fooled much with A/C stuff, so I could be completely mistaken there.

3.) I'm also thinking that insulation needs to be a high priority all the way around. What have you guys used that has worked well? I'm thinking something like this (http://smile.amazon.com/ESP-Low-E%C2%AE ... 00PX2C8DC/).

4.) Finally...filling the tank on this thing is a pain in the neck. You have to go incredibly slow, and even so you end up spilling. Is there a fix for this? Maybe moving it inside the trunk?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. Thanks for all the help.

[Comechero65]

First of all what stat do you have in the engine. I run a 160 here in cal where i live but it doesn't get as cold as othet places so works ok for me. Run at least a 180 should help. Also heater cores get loaded with scale over time and lose their ability to heat as well. No real good way to flush them out so replacing the core is the best cure.
The heaters on most early fords use a fresh air system and few have the ability to recirculate the air. The door on the drivers side is just a fresh air vent so that neds to be closed. The door on the heater needs to be closed so all air drawn in goes through the heater core. You do need the heater vent door in the open pos for full air flow.
You can turn yours into a recirculating system by installing a cover on the cowl vent, then open the drivers side air vent then all the air will recirculate through the heater. That can help a lot.
If your heater will fit a 2 1/2" core instead of the thinner 2" core will yield more heat.
If the blower is making alot of noise it could have worn bushings and need replacing. Make sure the blower wheel isn't filled with dirt and leaves.
Maybe time to take the heater apart and do a rebuild. New foam interior pieces and seals and a new heater core.
The splash back and difficult filling is not uncommon on most older cars. Some have no tank vent. And gas pumps pump a higher volume now a days so it makes it harder than in the past. some have tried using the filler neck out of later cars that have venting partition inside the filler neck. Or just switching to an in the trunk filler.
Ron

[comethead]

Yeah I think rebuilding the heater box might help.
I just did mine and replaced the motor and it puts out plenty of hot air. Be sure to read the owners manual on where to set your levers.
Also no back seat and no headliner will contribute to a COLD passenger cab. I used the stock tar paper looking stuff wherever the factory had it and it seems to insulate ok. Home Depot sells some stick on stuff that insulates well too.
Another thing- be sure your firewall holes are plugged if not used. Over time people drill holes all over the place and if their open they will put more cold air in the cab. I use a strip caulk sold by NPD to plug misc holes.
Good luck!

Joe

[deusamo]

Excellent feedback! Thanks so much, guys! The thermostat is apparently around 160 degrees. That's what the temp gauge shows anyway. Anyway, I have a few follow up questions.

The door on the drivers side is just a fresh air vent so that neds to be closed. The door on the heater needs to be closed so all air drawn in goes through the heater core. You do need the heater vent door in the open pos for full air flow.

I'm a bit confused. I see two doors, one on the right side (heater, I'm assuming) and one on the left. So the left one needs to be closed (unless I block off the cowl vent). And the right one needs to be closed to force air through the heater. What is the heater vent door, though?

And speaking of the cowl vent...what would be the easiest way to block that off? Is it best to block it off temporarily so it can be open during the hotter parts of the year?

For the in-trunk filler, what is the best way to do that? It looks like I should be able to just buy a filler neck (something like this: http://smile.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium ... 00MW9MR3U/) and install it in place of the elbow that's currently there. I'm just not sure if that is acceptable.

Thanks again, guys! This is super helpful!!

[comethead]

Yes the left side is just a non-heated fresh air vent. Air comes directly from the cowl vent.
The left gets air from the cowl vent as well but when your close the under dash door and open the heater door (with the sliding knob on the dash) the air gets directed through the heater core. Adjusting the temp knob adjusts another inner door.
Some guys use a marine quality steel filler cap and hose coming right out of the tank in the trunk. Dearborn sells a nice kit but it's damn expensive.
I angle the filler nozzle to straighten out the flow and take it slow.

Joe

[poboyjo65]

I rebuilt my heater box.new core,seal & foam kit,plentum & def. hoses. I'm really satisfied with it. 180 therm. gets plenty hot.I wish I would have changed my fan motor because it is noisy, but it isnt on high long before I have to turn it down ,HOT. I may let Groover plug up the extra toe heat hole I cut in the plentum, my left foot is gettin jealous

both doors are for fresh (cold! ) air.

I used bubble wrap,goes under metal roofing, for insulation. also used a bubble wrap from a sun screen , like you put in the windshield when parking in the sun. it was the tallest that Wally world had (Cheap! ) ,I think for a mini van. it had foil on both sides & fit the floors near perfect.

[lavron]

The car also does not have a headliner

No insulation over your head can't help the situation

See Ya,
Mike

[Comechero65]

Excellent feedback! Thanks so much, guys! The thermostat is apparently around 160 degrees. That's what the temp gauge shows anyway. Anyway, I have a few follow up questions.

The door on the drivers side is just a fresh air vent so that neds to be closed. The door on the heater needs to be closed so all air drawn in goes through the heater core. You do need the heater vent door in the open pos for full air flow.

I'm a bit confused. I see two doors, one on the right side (heater, I'm assuming) and one on the left. So the left one needs to be closed (unless I block off the cowl vent). And the right one needs to be closed to force air through the heater. What is the heater vent door, though?
And speaking of the cowl vent...what would be the easiest way to block that off? Is it best to block it off temporarily so it can be open during the hotter parts of the year?
For the in-trunk filler, what is the best way to do that? It looks like I should be able to just buy a filler neck (something like this: http://smile.amazon.com/Spectra-Premium ... 00MW9MR3U/) and install it in place of the elbow that's currently there. I'm just not sure if that is acceptable.
Thanks again, guys! This is super helpful!!

The door on the drivers side is just fresh air, no heat. the door you see on the pass side is also for fresh air if you have it open. Obviously you want that closed while using the heater. The doors inside the heater are to control air going through the heater core or to bypass it and they are controlled by the dash controls.

To close off the cowl vent some get a sheet of magnetic material and cut a piece to cover the cowl vents and just stick it on. It's easily removed if you want outside air or to show. They make removable covers for mustangs that clip on and seal out water and air and debris. The 64 1/2 to 66 mustangs are one style with 3 clips. The 67/68 is similar but has 4 clips to hold it in place. Either one has to be trimmed to fit as the mustang has deeper cowl slots then a falcon/comet. But trimming it is a simple job. I use the 64 1/2-66 version on mine and if i knew what I know now I should have gotten the 67/68 version. The covers can be left on while you drive or removed. Like i said you can recirculate air through the drivers side air vent by opening it and with the cover in place air will just recirculate through the cowl and back to the heater. Set up that way there is almost no fresh air admitted other then the little that gets pulled in through the cowl drain holes.

I like the cowl cover as it keeps all the crap from the trees and dirt out of the cowl and collecting water and causing corrosion. And since i have ac in mine i don't always need fresh air flow. I have wing windows for that if needed.

As far as the gas tank filler neck it has been discussed on TFFN more than once and if i remember correctly some use a filler neck from a maverick or maybe a bronco which has a built in vent partition. Or they adapt some type of partition to help vent air trapped at the top when they are filling. Some try adding a non-lead trap door from a newer car to the filler neck. Some say that works but i don't believe that to be a good solution.

The issue of being hard to fill the tank without splashback seems to be a common issue with early falcons and probably comets as well. I drove a mustang for many years which has a similar filler as the falcon/comets and I never had a problem filling. Not to say that todays pumps pump at a higher rate and with more pressure couldn't also be part of the problem.

Some go to the inside filler as way around the splash/fill problem. I would not do that except in desperation. But that is a choice.
Ron

[deusamo]

Thanks everyone. I have a new blower motor, heater core, higher temp thermostat, foam kit for the heater box, as well as a huge roll of bubble-type insulation. I'm hoping to install it all on Saturday. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[poboyjo65]

careful with the box, they are brittle. patch any holes in it or heat may escape during summer time even with the heat off. these old cars don't have a valve to shut off the coolant from the heater . & a tight box is always warmer! Huh! wait til Pop gets a hold of that line!

[popscomet]

. & a tight box is always warmer! Huh! wait til Pop gets a hold of that line! [/quote]
YEP,it is !! and thats as close as I'm gettin to it ...pop

[comethead]

Problem is tight boxes tend to loosen up over time. I always throw the old box out and get a younger er... I mean newer one!

[popscomet]

Problem is tight boxes tend to loosen up over time. I always throw the old box out and get a younger er... I mean newer one!

AND that's another line ,ain't gettin close to.......(even if I agree,I plead insanity) pop

[deusamo]

Thanks for all the help. It finally warmed up enough for me to be able to work on the car. One of these days I'll get a garage...anyway.

I pulled out the heater box, and there was gigantic rats nest inside. No rat, thankfully. Anyway, I cleaned all that out, and cleaned out the blower. I changed to a 190 degree thermostat and replaced the heating core. It now blows VERY hot.

I fixed a handful of other things while I was at it. I added some insulation to the drivers side door (I'll get the passenger one soon, hopefully) and it now sounds much better when you close it. Instead of the hollow, tinny sort of sound, it makes a solid thunk.

Anyway, thanks for all the help!!

[captian_napalm]

Anyone know where I can find replacement vent doors? I am missing the drivers side.