Lavron's '64 Build Thread

The Era of The Square Body Racing Comets

Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 pm

Lou's Comet wrote:Your cam manufacturer will tell you what type/pressure valve springs to run with the cam. You might want to talk to them in case the head needs machine work for the springs, before you have the head work done?


The machinist and I had a lengthy discussion on valve springs and valves, we determined to use the later, larger valves and not risk ruining the head by going larger (there is a possibility of cutting into the water jacket on cylinder #1 running larger valves) the '72 head has smaller intake valves but the same size exhaust valves as the '78 and later heads, that is why we decided to just enlarge the intake (FYI for folks not familiar with the small Ford sixes; after '65 all exhaust valves were 1.38" in diameter, 170-250, '65-'74 intake valves were 1.649", '77 on intakes were upped to 1.75")

As far as valve springs go, he is leaving it up to me to contact the cam manufacturer to see what they recommend with the cam set-up I am getting (as you have suggested Lou) I am sure it will be a month or more before I see my head again and in that time I will be getting my cam most likely and the valve springs, the machinist is ordering the valves and seats so he can get started (if he does) My other responsibility is to get my custom intake cast so he can do the machine work needed to attach it.

Lots to do.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:35 pm

Went out today and got the crank installed, I really did not like it sitting around loose where it might get damaged, I installed the bearings, lubed, and torqued the bolts down, I also installed the rear main seal of course.
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I wanted to put my pistons in as well but a rodent decided the ring compressor made a good toilet and it is rusted beyond use (like rusted in pieces) so I need to get a new one (on order) so I went ahead and installed the rings and was going to install my rod bearings when I discovered I made a bone head mistake (not the first in my life :roll: ) When I ordered the bearings and gaskets for the car (a kit) I just got the 250 set of .010 under bearings, if you remember my rods are not 250 but 2.5L I4 HSC rods and they use a different bearing (Ford could not just use the same bearing I guess) the notches in the rods and caps are obviously in a slight different location plus the notches are a bit narrower on the Taurus rod.
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I looked the bearings up on RockAuto and they are not the same part number, but the specs are exactly the same;
Min Shaft Dia 2.1232
Max Shaft Dia 2.124
Min Housing Bore 2.239
Max Housing Bore 2.2398
Min Oil Clearance 0.0005
Max Oil Clearance 0.0028
Max Wall Thickness 0.0574
Overall Length 0.81

So every number they give there are the same between the two, I could paste the other specs in but I would just be repeating what is there, I would assume the only difference is where the tab is and what size it is? They have individual Sealed Power bearings in .010 under on clearance for $2.53 each pair so I ordered 6. So not an expensive goof.

The machinist gave me a 302 main bolt with a stud when I was there to hold my modified oil pickup tube (which I am happy to say lines up perfect) but it had no nut, I have a stainless ny-loc nut that is the correct thread, can I use it or will the engine be too hot for the nylon insert?
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Also in all my new parts I did not get a oil pump to block gasket, I have read that I don't need one or I can use a thin layer of RTV, what do you guys advise, I was thinking just the RTV would be ok, not sure I can even buy a gasket.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:02 pm

Because I am at a stopping point on the motor (or have been stopped until parts arrive) I got back on the trunk floor repair. I got the left side welded in last time, this time I got the right side done, this is the first time I really had an opportunity to use the new plasma cutter, talk about easy, I love that thing, it took like 5 minutes to cut out the rusty stuff, that would have taken much longer with the cutoff wheel and probably consumed a disk, I can't believe it doesn't care if there is rust or paint it zips right through, I am sure I drug my tip more than I was supposed too but I will get better, I did use a guide along the edge of where the trunk drop is, the rest is free hand.

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I was able then to just use the cutoff over the frame rails and then just peel the strips up off the frame after hitting the spot welds with the grinder.

Not sure when these got in there, about 1/2" nuts, they don't look exactly new but don't look like 1964 nuts either, they still have their cadmium plating mostly.

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There really was not a hole big enough on this side for a large rodent to fit that was collecting "nuts" so I must have had them in the trunk and they fell through a hole (even though I don't remember loosing any and the only hole was near the top) Those would have made a nice rattle if I had not found them, I am glad I decided to go ahead and replace the floor right now :roll: I did find a mouse nest between the bumper bolts in the rear however, at least the plasma did not set it on fire it did have some spots glowing :roll:

I got it all welded in and still need to do some grinding on my plug welds but the rear sides of the trunk is done(ish) now.

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Need to make a couple of filler panels and cut the holes for the air bag fitting access holes and I can get the trunk floor finished up.

Getting closer every day to knocking the car back apart and getting it rolled up on its side to finish up the undercarriage.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Worked a little while today before the heat took over (supposed to cool down tomorrow) got my frame filler panels made and decided to cheat and just make patches out of my old floor for the air bag access holes.

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The filler panels are the things with the Vicegrips holding them too the frame, I still need to make some patches to go over the top of the frame rails, those will be covered by the other floor but I don't want to leave the frame open on top.

You can see the access holes up at the ends of the diagonal bracing, it is going to be a little tough screwing the air fitting down in there but it isn't something (hopefully) I will have to do very often, I may have to get a crowfoot wrench to tighten the fitting (or take an old socket and slot it to clear the elbow on the fitting).

Hoping tomorrow to have the floor all in and at least ready to weld if nothing comes up.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:03 pm

Got the under panels done and welded in today, started welding the floor down, got tacks around the bag access holes.

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Also got the HSC rod bearings today they fit much better than the 250 bearings.
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Waiting for my ring compressor to get here so I can get the pistons installed.

I went ahead and ordered 12 - '74 302 exhaust valve springs and 12 - '65 390FE push rods for a solid lifter motor (for use adjustable rocker arms), I guess FE adjustable rocker arms are not the same as 144-170 adjustable rockers but they sure look the same :roll: (I have adj. rockers for my car), even though I am using off the shelf parts mostly some of it is getting harder and harder to find. My engine also uses FE lifters.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:04 pm

Trunk floor pan welded in and I did a little filler work and primed part of it. I like my little access holes at least they are back in the car from the original floor just turned the other direction :P . I hope I can find my rubber plugs now that I put those in (they are someplace around here)
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Still have to get the far front part done which means kneeling down in the back seat area, glad there are just a few plug welds to grind :roll: I need to finish the both sides of the floor beside the gas tank as well, it is mostly done on the left side just a couple of small things to do there, the right side I have to grind all the plug welds smooth and clean up a couple of seams.

One thing you can't see in the picture is I still need to finish the two rounded corners on the front of the gas tank area, glad this little project is almost done, seems I have been working on it a long time :roll:

The floor is not super straight, in that it has waves and dents etc. doesn't bother me, it is the trunk and I am going to paint it with bed liner when I am done.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby Jims65cyclone » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:23 pm

Looks really good, Mike.

Jim
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Here is a picture of the FE pushrods (1965 FORD GALAXIE 6.4L 390cid V8) on the right, compared to the 250 pushrod on the left, looks like they should work fine, the cup matches the ball on the other pushrod and I read that is how you tell if they will work.
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The reason for the switch, if anyone was wondering, is 250s never came with adjustable rocker arms so they only had the ball and ball pushrods, I am putting 144-170 (1960-64) adjustable rockers from a solid lifter Falcon/Comet on my engine (my original '64 170 came with hydraulic lifters and adjustable rockers, I believe after '65 all were hydraulic so no more adjustable rockers) I wanted the adjustability in the valve train. The Sealed Power standard FE pushrods were a lot cheaper than a custom made set.

I was talking to the guy the owns the health food store this week, we talk about my Comet a lot, he thought it was funny all the different parts I was putting together to make my Comet, he wanted to know if I was going to get a custom plate that said Frankestien :roll: :P :lol:

I told him I needed to compile a list and keep in the glove box so I could remember what all the parts are in case I have a breakdown on the road. I guess mechanically my Comet is 94% Ford, 1% Other and 5% homemade stuff.

I guess you really don't count things like rear shock being Mitsubishi Montero, but just KYB Shocks that happen to fit a Montero and my car :roll: and my front brake calipers are Speedway Motors that happen to use brandX brake pads :P I think I am still ok calling it a Comet the body is mostly '64 Comet and homemade parts, the motor is a 250 that were in late model Comets.

Some of the cars/trucks that have lent me parts are; Mustangs (naturally) Explorer, Escort, Lincoln, Crown Vic, Contour, Taurus, T-Bird, Galaxie, Torino, Land Cruiser, and more (brand X), some of those are just parts that fit a lot of different vehicles but that is what I used to find them.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby Jims65cyclone » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:08 pm

You've got the makings of a country song there. Shades of Johnny Cash..... :lol: :lol:

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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby Groover » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:50 am

Progress looks great. You have the patience of a ... well, a Comet owner for sure.
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby SASSY » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:34 am

Groover wrote:Progress looks great. You have the patience of a ... well, a Comet owner for sure.

I think he may have received some of that from you!!
Fred
I'd rather do it myself if it's done right or not,,,isn't that what hotrodding is all about?
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:09 pm

Jims65cyclone wrote:You've got the makings of a country song there. Shades of Johnny Cash.....


Well mine has not been free. :roll:

Groover wrote:Progress looks great. You have the patience of a ... well, a Comet owner for sure.


Thanks it is not easy sometimes :P

SASSY wrote:I think he may have received some of that from you!!


Well I have gotten a lot of inspiration from everyone here, hopefully something I post up here will do the same for someone.

I got out this morning and got my pistons installed and torqued the rod bolts down to 35# as per ARP instructions. (the oil pump and pickup is just test fit for now)
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Piston to deck height is much better than the original 1/8" of shortfall, now I can barely fit an .014 feeler gauge under a straight edge and a .013 has slight drag. The machinist cut the dish larger in the top of the piston to hopefully control the compression ratio because, depending on what has to happen with the head, we were getting around 10:1 compression on paper (before he cut the larger dish), I would like to stay closer to 9.1-9.3 if I can so I can run pump gas.
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I went ahead and test fitted my timing cover and water pump on the block to see what bolts I need to get, I have 3 sets of stainless engine hardware for a 200 of course the 250 uses different sizes and number of bolts in these two places :roll:
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I may be able to get the bolts to work on the water pump but the timing cover are too short and seemingly too long (between the short and long bolts) plus there is not enough of them, I have the stock set so I will take them in sometime and just buy a set of stainless to match.

The timing cover is actually painted, I discovered Rustoleum satin nickel looks like freshly blasted aluminum (it matches the water pump), the cover was clean just not very bright so if I chip it it shouldn't be that big a deal it is just raw aluminum underneath.

There is a slight drag feeling when turning the water pump, this may be normal or I am touching someplace, I will check the feel of the water pump when I take it back off and look for anyplace it might be contacting the block.

Slowly, slowly I am getting there.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby popscomet » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:42 pm

everything is looking GREAT !....it may work out for you on this 6cyl...but several years ago I built a 289 with allen head bolts,everywhere a bolt was used,,I could get them at work for free,every size,,was a pretty engine when done,,after I installed it and later down the road when having to do something ,sometimes those bolts were a pain,,but they sure make for a pretty engine....pop
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby lavron » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:52 pm

popscomet wrote:sometimes those bolts were a pain,,but they sure make for a pretty engine....pop


Yes I am not so interested in the allen bolt as much as it being stainless, I think I have had this set for 20+ years, one of my other sets (or both of them) is regular hex bolt IIRC so I may end up with a combination of styles.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Restoration/Upgrade on a BUDGET - Working on; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Whatever I do it will be awesome!
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Re: Lavron's '64 Build Thread

Postby tomb22 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:46 pm

Glad to see you putting your engine together. To me that was the real fun part of building a car.
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