64 V8 Steering shaft and rack block needed

[slantfin]

Trying to get my 64 Cyclone on the road this year and one of the hurdles is the fact that my steering box has tons of play. Ive ID'd where the slop is coming from by taking the box apart. Its the worm gear and rack block on the shaft that seem to have excessive play but for the life of me I cant find a replacement shaft anywhere. Ive got the tag off the box and decoded it. Its a 64 V8 box, 39in shaft, 1.125 sector. Does anyone happen to know a maker thats reproducing the shafts along with a rack block? My play exists in the shaft and inside of the block before the sector shaft gears or the gears on the rack block even move.

[Groover]

Are you sure that the play isn't due to the settings? Have you tried to adjust the box?

http://www.stangerssite.com/adjustment.html

If you need parts, you may have better luck just buying another box from a parts car.

[Comechero65]

Tyically the wear in the steering box that cause all the slop is in two places. 1. the teeth on the worm block and the teeth on the pitman shaft. 2. the ball bearings that recirculate through the worm block.

Both the teeth on the sector shaft and worm block get worn and grooved due to the grease which dries out and gets shoved off into the corners of the box so the parts no longer get lubed.
If you have a dremel you you can carefully reshape the teeth to remove the grooving and return the shape back near original.
Use machinist die will let you see what you have changed as you work. I have simply used a felt marker to mark the teeth to show the mating pattern as you test the fit. Repeat with the marker as you go to know when you have reached a proper shape and fit. I have done this with mine to return mine back to origianal shape and a good fit. I have actually improved the shape and fit to what i thought was correct or better.
Ball bearings in the worm block are another part that wears and there are bearings of larger sizes but those are generally only available to those who commercially rebuild steering boxes. A local bearing supply house will have standard replacements but not the incrementaly sizes. The best you can do is get standard sizes.

I rebuilt my steering box and replaced the bearings with new standard sizes and was able to return mine to as good as or better fit and function as when new.

Bottom line is if you have a steady hand and patience you can clean it up and do it yourself as the parts are available for both 6 and 8 cyl boxes. Or send it out to someone who does that.

Ron

[Rocket989]

If it's gone past the point of no return, 5-turn boxes are comparatively easy to find. Just gotta be careful buying used (may not be any better than what you've got!). Ditto on rebuilds. I'd trust Chockostang (though he's South for the winter 'til March), and RedHead (if they still do these style boxes).

Otherwise, a quick ratio Flaming River replacement isn't much more!!

[slantfin]

Yes I've tried the adjustment. It was no help. The shaft can move about a half an inch before the block or sector teeth even move. I think it's the worm on the shaft or the balls in the block. Comechero, you have replaced the balls inside the block and had success? Maybe I can find a place to match up some balls for me. Just hoping the worm on the shaft isn't worn.

[Comechero65]

Yes I've tried the adjustment. It was no help. The shaft can move about a half an inch before the block or sector teeth even move. I think it's the worm on the shaft or the balls in the block. Comechero, you have replaced the balls inside the block and had success? Maybe I can find a place to match up some balls for me. Just hoping the worm on the shaft isn't worn.

As you adjust the screw further down into the box it tightens the teeth between the pitman arm and worm block. Can't imagine you would have to move it far. I have replaced the balls in the worm block. Mine weren't that worn but replaced them anyway. Stock original balls are a standard size. .230" is standard size. I got mine at a local bearing supply house. But they only have the standard sizes. Takes 62 balls.
If the bearings are worn a lot then most likely the worm on the input shaft would have equal wear. But the shaft can be replaced which would be a big help.
Part of the wear is the wear and grooving on the teeth on the pitman shaft and worm block. I used a small abrasive disk on my dremel to dress out the wear and the slight grooving on mine. That will cause the pitman shaft to move further down in the case the more metal you dress off. But was not a problem for me. I was able to make the center area tight as it is supposed to be and less loose off of center than original but feels very good and works just fine.
Ron

[Rocket989]

I'm not sure how much larger you can go...the ball guides might wind-up limiting the over-size bearings... IIRC the originals are .230 diameter and hardened chrome. Be very careful & check THOROUGHLY if you're changing that kinda stuff!! Be safe!

[Comechero65]

I'm not sure how much larger you can go...the ball guides might wind-up limiting the over-size bearings... IIRC the originals are .230 diameter and hardened chrome. Be very careful & check THOROUGHLY if you're changing that kinda stuff!! Be safe!

I'm not talking about the ball bearings on the shaft being larger. Those are still the standard size. I'm only talking about the ball bearings used in the worm block. What the shops that rebuild steering boxes do is to use larger bearings as the path the bearings travel in get larger.
They have bearings in small incremental sizes, only a few thousandths larger in steps. We as the public don't have access to those. And there is no way to know how much larger they would need to be as it is just trial fitting to get it right.
The only thing we can do is to replace them with stock size. If that doesn't help we are screwed.
In my case I was still good with the new original size.
All the other parts remain the same. I found in the parts I ordered that the bearings that were to replace the those on the pitman shaft, mine were a better fit as well as better quality than the new replacements. So I never replaced them just left the originals in place and replaced everything else.
Ron

[Rocket989]

Yah, I am talking about the loose ball bearings that go in the rack block. Hardened, chrome-plated ball bearings can be found, but sometimes it's tough in less than huge quantities. Not sure what bearings you mean when referring to the pitman (sector) shaft...two needle-bearing assemblies are used there. Captured ball bearing assemblies are used on the input shaft.

I just wanted to make sure the OP exercises due caution. Any binding issues would probably show up on the bench but careful is the word here.

[Comechero65]

Yah, I am talking about the loose ball bearings that go in the rack block. Hardened, chrome-plated ball bearings can be found, but sometimes it's tough in less than huge quantities. Not sure what bearings you mean when referring to the pitman (sector) shaft...two needle-bearing assemblies are used there. Captured ball bearing assemblies are used on the input shaft.
I just wanted to make sure the OP exercises due caution. Any binding issues would probably show up on the bench but careful is the word here.

Yes the pitman shaft runs through two needle-bearing assemblies. Replacements had less needle bearings then my original and didn't fit as well. So left the originals.
And captured bearing assemblies are used on the input shaft.
Have never read anything that said the ball bearings in the worm block are hardened chrome. I have no doubt they are all hardened but may not be chromed. Replacements didn't look any different. Not sure if they were chromed whether that's a good thing. If the chrome started to come off would mess things up plus turn rough.
Ron

[slantfin]

Comechero, you posted that the shaft can be replaced but I have yet to find a place that sells a new, correct falcon /comet shaft. The falcons use a 39in what where the 65 stang uses a longer shaft. A mustang shaft would have to be cut. Also, I only counted 60 balls in my rack block. Hope I'm not missing a couple. Or maybe that's the reason for the excessive pay. Are you sure you had 62?

[Comechero65]

Comechero, you posted that the shaft can be replaced but I have yet to find a place that sells a new, correct falcon /comet shaft. The falcons use a 39in what where the 65 stang uses a longer shaft. A mustang shaft would have to be cut. Also, I only counted 60 balls in my rack block. Hope I'm not missing a couple. Or maybe that's the reason for the excessive pay. Are you sure you had 62?

I have never seen a replacement shaft for a falcon. They are available for the mustangs but are about 1 to 1 1/2" longer. The mustang shaft could be cut and shortened or use a mustang column tube. Only bad thing there is the wheel gets closer to the driver. May be a problem for some and a benefit for others depending how tall or how much room you need.
Someone like Stangerssite might have a usable shaft as they rebuild boxes.

When I installed the eps in mine I actually extended the shaft out another 5/8" to make room for my rally-pac to fit on the column between the hub and the cluster without hitting. I can't even tell the difference.

Mine took 62 balls but if yours only has 60 that's one less on each half so would not make any difference and would not cause any excess play. You could add one more on each half but not worth worrying about.

Someone commented whether the guides would handle larger balls. The guides are large enough for the larger balls and they never get more than a few thousands larger anyway so not a problem.
Ron

[slantfin]

Below it or not I've found a 100 pack of 15/64th chrome steel balls for 5.60. Haha. Walmart sells em.

[Comechero65]

Below it or not I've found a 100 pack of 15/64th chrome steel balls for 5.60. Haha. Walmart sells em.

Just so you know those are .004375" larger than standard. May be too much of an increase. But you can try them.
Ron

[slantfin]

Didnt like how those 15/64 balls felt during the install. Plus the worn looks bad to me. I found a listing on ebay for an hcc-ap steering box. 64 comet v8. Bought it, they shipped it and as I suspected its not a v8 steering box. It only has a 1in sector shaft and not the bigger sector like I needed. It all has to go back and Im back at square one. I need a v8 steering box. Can u mod a small sector shaft steering box to fit this v8 steering in my cyclone? I have a feeling its got to be more than just a pitman arm swap. The boxes with the smaller sector shaft are readily available as they were used on the 65 stang.