66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

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kevinshi
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66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

If Mac's has their fitment data correct for their 1966-70 Falcon-1966 Ranchero-1966-Comet New 2-Speed Wiper Motor, then it seems the 66-69 Comets had a 2-Speed wiper motor (option?).

Question: Assuming that Mac's data is accurate... does anyone have a knowledge/picture/diagram depicting the wiring for the washer pump that was used with the 2-speed motor? (Did that pump have more than four wires?)
Thanks,
kevin
1965 Caliente Convertible
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poboyjo65
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by poboyjo65 »

Kevin if you click on number 13 file the 1965 wiper section on this link,
https://www.squarebirds.org/Manuals/196 ... talogs.htm
then scroll down to page 7 of the diamgrams ,,,which dont start until after all the pages of numbers. but it is a 66 fairlane & falcon showing the layout & on the pump I only see 2 wires. it isnt a wiring diagram but I think if it had 4 wires they would show 4 on here.
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by poboyjo65 »

Oh you said foot pump,sorry, my bad,the one I meant is electric. so you could get either one in 66? :?


I scrolled on down some found this fairlane sheet with footpumps for both single & 2 speed motors.
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by A/FX »

I was looking for something in my parts area and found this. I believe someone wanted to know how many wires were on the pump switch.
Jim
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kevinshi
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

OK so having dug into this a bit more it appears that earlier Falcon's did indeed have a 2 speed wiper motor option (as early as '63?).

When (if ever) was the earliest this option was offered on the Comet? I can't find anything that leads me to believe it was an option on 64 or 65... however per my first post on this thread there is evidence that it appeared as an option starting in 1966.

In any case I am intensely curious about the wiring for the pumps that appeared with the 2 speed motors.

I can account for four wires (as per Jim's pictures)... however many of these pumps seem to have a 5th, or even 6th wire. The four I know of are as follows (what could possibly have been added to this?):
  1. Incoming ground from switch (active when switch is off or governor has suspended motor operation)
  2. Outgoing ground to motor for "kill switch" to stop motor in Park (active when not pumped)
  3. Incoming 12V+ from switch (powered continually on the fuse-box ACCY line)
  4. Outgoing 12V+ to motor for "kick out of park" (active when pumped).
With those 4 wires the pump switch has the ability (a) force the motor into action and (b) relay a kill signal to the motor. What other function is served by a 5th or 6th wire connected at the pump switch? (And in particular does 2-speed motor dictate there be additional wire(s)?)?

(...and just to be clear I am talking IN ADDITION to the two water hoses...)
Thanks,
kevin
1965 Caliente Convertible
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by A/FX »

The set up I pictured in my last post was removed from a ‘64 Comet Caliente I parted out back in the late ‘70s. It may have been a dealer installed option.
Jim
‘64 Cyclone/ Boss 302,quads,4spd, Winters 9”

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kevinshi
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

Huh. Well it starts to appear to me that the '64 had an option for a 2-speed whereas the 65 did not. Perhaps the 2-speed option was taken away in '65 because of the addition of interval wipers (vacuum based governor).

I now wonder how the single (full) speed of the 65 compares to the two speeds on the 64... whether it is the same as the slow (or fast) or maybe something in between?

If anyone out there has the 64 wiring diagrams I would love to see what all those wires are doing on a 64...
Thanks,
kevin
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by poboyjo65 »

kevinshi wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:29 pm
Huh. Well it starts to appear to me that the '64 had an option for a 2-speed whereas the 65 did not. Perhaps the 2-speed option was taken away in '65 because of the addition of interval wipers (vacuum based governor).

I now wonder how the single (full) speed of the 65 compares to the two speeds on the 64... whether it is the same as the slow (or fast) or maybe something in between?

If anyone out there has the 64 wiring diagrams I would love to see what all those wires are doing on a 64...
Kevin I've been wondering about the speeds. did you ever finish your wipers?
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

Sigh. Yes I did. And I created an amazingly boring YouTube about the system, including wiring. The primary attribute of the video is it's value as a sleep aid. Yawn!

I have been meaning to finally finish and publish it. With your prod I will do so by end of weekend.

It's boring however I am hopeful you will not be left with any material questions. ;-)
Thanks,
kevin
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by poboyjo65 »

kevinshi wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:40 pm
Sigh. Yes I did. And I created an amazingly boring YouTube about the system, including wiring. The primary attribute of the video is it's value as a sleep aid. Yawn!

I have been meaning to finally finish and publish it. With your prod I will do so by end of weekend.

It's boring however I am hopeful you will not be left with any material questions. ;-)
Oh ! that's for the vac type? for your car I thought you abandoned the vacuum type & went with the electrical set up from a 70s/80s truck?
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

Nope, I stuck with the vacuum system. I have it working. I added a vacuum gauge to my car just so I can see the vacuum's impact on the wipers.

It's got to be among the most ridiculous systems ever designed by Henry's prodigy.

Which is why its worth a YouTube video - because, you know, YouTube is where you get tips on picking fuzz out of your navel.
Thanks,
kevin
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by fryedaddy »

i dont know much about wiper motors,but my 66 caliente has 2 speeds one normal and one super fast.
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

fryedaddy wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:11 am
i dont know much about wiper motors,but my 66 caliente has 2 speeds one normal and one super fast.
To my knowledge the 65 shipped only with a single speed motor. I don't know about 66 though I would have guessed it was the same (your report seems to prove my guess errant). I would have said your 66 does not have an original motor (I thought that two speed motor did not appear on Ford cars for a few years thereafter).

However the 65 also had an additional (optional?) component/feature (Caliente for certain) - a vacuum driven governor that would cause the single speed motor to slow down (to intermittently stop). Thus the 65 had two modes: Normal (single) speed and Interrupted aka Intermittent (aka janky :-). Not two speed but two modes.

When the governor does not function (broken and/or is removed) these two modes appear exactly the same. That is because the first mode is "not Interrupted" and the second mode is "interruption function is broken.". To wit: Both wiper settings result in normal wiper speed (neither are interrupted). So on a 65 you may think you are toggling between "two speeds" but you are not - they are exactly the same speed. The toggle switch has no impact on wiper behavior unless the governor is working.
Thanks,
kevin
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

Just consulted the Master Parts Catalog which proves me wrong.

Looks to me like the 1966 had two wiper motors. I believe the following is accurate:

C6GY-17508-A: Single speed motor "Use with intermittent system"
C6OZ-17508-B: Two speed motor "Use without intermittent system"
Thanks,
kevin
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Re: 66-69 2-Speed Wiper - Foot Pump Wiring?

Post by kevinshi »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:55 pm
Kevin I've been wondering about the speeds. did you ever finish your wipers?
BTW above I asked about the 5th and 6th wires that appeared on some pumps. I speculate that those additional two wires are (only) present on two speed motor systems - I am guessing that w/out them the system would not activate when the pedal is pumped while the switch is set to high speed. That is just a guess...
Thanks,
kevin
1965 Caliente Convertible
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