Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

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lavron
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by lavron »

I have always heard R&P makes the turn radius longer, is that just the rear steer or the front steer like MII? The reason I ask is, even though I haven't driven my car yet with the MII, I don't see how I could turn much sharper without hitting the tire on the frame.

I am not clear if the geometry is different between the MII spindle and the stock Comet/Ford spindle and that Pintos don't turn that sharp? My dad bought a Pinto for us kids to drive, my sister is 3 years older, then my brother is 2 years older, I am the youngest so the Pinto never made it down to me (my brother and sister shared it, I bought my Comet, mine alone, I don't like to share) anyway I drove the Pinto from time to time it seemed to turn sharp enough IIRC. Anyway I am sure someone here has the definitive answer on that.

You guys know I am not trying to promote MII over stock steering, even though the MII has advantages it also comes with a lot of headaches and is certainly not the end all front suspension design, it worked well for what I was doing but my ball joint boots are already torn and will have to be replaced (I think it is from lowering the car and they are screw in Chrysler(?) style ball joints, the boots never fit very well, BTW).

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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tomb22
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by tomb22 »

poboyjo65 wrote:Yea Better shocks would help a lot.Your frontend is jealous of the rear! & with adjustable ones ,surely you could dial it in to suit you.
Do you still have your old steering box? that would get your turning radius back. why did you go with R&P ? to get PS? It's probably the same rack as a MII. if you put your old box back in ,eps would be a on the cheap.
Unfortunately I sold the whole stock steering assembly. It was a power steering set up. It needed a lot of work because it was pretty loose. I just thought replacing it with a R&P would make it a modern setup. Right now I wish I would have fixed the stock setup. Didn't know :(
I'm going to keep looking into this.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by poboyjo65 »

tomb22 wrote: Unfortunately I sold the whole stock steering assembly. It was a power steering set up. It needed a lot of work because it was pretty loose. I just thought replacing it with a R&P would make it a modern setup. Right now I wish I would have fixed the stock setup. Didn't know :(
I'm going to keep looking into this.
tom
I wouldn't let that bother me, It was most likely 6 cyl parts that came with those spindles. someone probably changed it all at some point to gain ps.

I think I remember hearing one of the high end companies rack was supposed to be same as factory turning radius & geometry, but it was really crazy high priced.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by poboyjo65 »

Tom I sent you a PM.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by smithhe »

I am wanting to do the 65 steering swap in my 64 because i am having the common problems since my car has been lowered, before i pull the trigger on these parts i just want to make sure i got this right. I can buy a 65 set of inner/outer tierods, 65 center link, pitman arm that fits, and idler arm, if i buy some 65 mustang spindles will this whole configuration work? i know since i have a v8 64 that i will need a 68 mustang pitman arm for this to work so i will get one of those as well.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by poboyjo65 »

Right. center link is the only part that needs to be comet specific.the rest can be mustang parts. & right about the pitman.

does your box have much slop? have you thought about a borgesen power steering conversion? they make a 14:1 box that really make it drive sweet. it is the most favorite change I made to mine.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by smithhe »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:06 pm
Right. center link is the only part that needs to be comet specific.the rest can be mustang parts. & right about the pitman.

does your box have much slop? have you thought about a borgesen power steering conversion? they make a 14:1 box that really make it drive sweet. it is the most favorite change I made to mine.
my steering box does have quite bit of slop but i figured i would do the steering swap before the borgeson unit, im also on manual steering so i never really looked into power steering because the manual doesnt bother me
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by SASSY »

smithhe wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:51 pm
I am wanting to do the 65 steering swap in my 64 because i am having the common problems since my car has been lowered, before i pull the trigger on these parts i just want to make sure i got this right. I can buy a 65 set of inner/outer tierods, 65 center link, pitman arm that fits, and idler arm, if i buy some 65 mustang spindles will this whole configuration work? i know since i have a v8 64 that i will need a 68 mustang pitman arm for this to work so i will get one of those as well.
Just insuring that you understand you need a 68 power steering pitman arm,,, I made the mistake of buying a manual one first.
Fred
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by smithhe »

Okay so ill go ahead and order those parts thanks for the help guys, also i know baer makes the bumpsteer eliminators where the go in place of your outer tie rods and you can adjust the height at which they mount to the spindle. If I use these would this eliminate the need for new spindles? im just trying to save a couple bucks so if this doesnt work thats fine lol.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by poboyjo65 »

smithhe wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:47 pm
Okay so ill go ahead and order those parts thanks for the help guys, also i know baer makes the bumpsteer eliminators where the go in place of your outer tie rods and you can adjust the height at which they mount to the spindle. If I use these would this eliminate the need for new spindles? im just trying to save a couple bucks so if this doesnt work thats fine lol.
I've heard some having good results using the bumper steer kits & some not as good reports. perhaps they didnt set em up right? but those kits are fairly expensive aren't they? If you could find a good set of used spindles v8 comet falcon or stang for cheap it would be a lot easier & you could always buy stang tierod ends, there will always be available & plenty of them. depends on if you want a bolt on & be done or if you want to be adjustable.if you're gonna slam it down in the weeds later you might want that adjustability.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by smithhe »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:35 pm
smithhe wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:47 pm
Okay so ill go ahead and order those parts thanks for the help guys, also i know baer makes the bumpsteer eliminators where the go in place of your outer tie rods and you can adjust the height at which they mount to the spindle. If I use these would this eliminate the need for new spindles? im just trying to save a couple bucks so if this doesnt work thats fine lol.
I've heard some having good results using the bumper steer kits & some not as good reports. perhaps they didnt set em up right? but those kits are fairly expensive aren't they? If you could find a good set of used spindles v8 comet falcon or stang for cheap it would be a lot easier & you could always buy stang tierod ends, there will always be available & plenty of them. depends on if you want a bolt on & be done or if you want to be adjustable.if you're gonna slam it down in the weeds later you might want that adjustability.
the only reason i ask is because i can get the bumpsteer kit for $90 and new 65 spindles are gonna be around $300, so i would rather use the bumpsteer kit and just keep my spindles. are the bolt holes on the spindles a different size from 64 to 65? thats the only thing i could see giving me a problem with using the bumpsteer kit.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by poboyjo65 »

not sure which bolt holes you're referring to ,but here is a quote from Fred earlier in this thread talking about the arms having different size holes. just about everything you need to know is in this thread,if not we'll figure it out & put it in here. I think you could find some used spindles cheaper than 300. I gave a pair away a few years ago. people are always doing Mustang ii conversions & have left over spindles. I see them go for 200 most times. but you might find them cheaper if you look around. sometimes you can spend a dime trying to save a nickle & have to work harder to do it.


SASSY wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:58 pm
I now own a pair of 65 spindles.
Only difference I can see 1) the 65 looks have a smaller hole to mount the tierod
2)the 65 tierod mount hole is about 1.125 inches lower than the 64 but on the same centerline.
Think I will further modify my 64 spindles to replicate the 65s.
Upon a PM discussion with Johno I will probably shorten the distance from the ball joint to the tierod to quicken the steering as well.
Fred
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by poboyjo65 »

Hopefully Fred will chime in ,he can tell you the differences in the spindles. I'll look around ,see if I see any deals on 65 spl's,saw some for 250 back in oct.,,if he hasn't sold them he might come down a little,I'll see if I can find it.
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by smithhe »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:48 pm
Hopefully Fred will chime in ,he can tell you the differences in the spindles. I'll look around ,see if I see any deals on 65 spl's,saw some for 250 back in oct.,,if he hasn't sold them he might come down a little,I'll see if I can find it.
thank you very much for the help!
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Re: Upgrade your steering ( 65 V8 steering)

Post by SASSY »

As I remember when I went through the process with my spindles I further modified my 64 spindles instead of using the
65s I had purchased.
My spindles are a hack job that most people wouldnt be intetested in.
The difference between 64s and 5s are few but important.
The location of the tierod mount and the size of the tierod mount hole. 65 tierods are way cheaper ( read Mustang)
I believe you would be happiest with a set of 65 spindles and doing the Shelby drop point the wheels in the right direction and enjoy the ride.
If you plan to lower the front stay a couple inches off the snubbers, pickup a 1.125 anti roll bar
and firm shocks. Getting decent positive castor may require more changes.
Remember,,, taking things closer to the edge always means more changes than we think, just like pullin more horsepower
out of a motor.
Fred
I'd rather do it myself if it's done right or not,,,isn't that what hotrodding is all about?
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