confirming an original motor

289 - 351 cid Small Block Performance
garch65
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

I have this metal tag on my intake manifold, it looks like it says 289 65 5
4M N 573 J
I need help understanding the meaning of 4M N 573 J ?
Is there anything else I can look at to help me verify the motor is original to the car? The history of the car seems to make it so, but i would like more proof for myself. I'm never selling my Comet while i'm breathing :) It's more about me learning. I have learned a ton in the last 2 years regarding my car on this forum and i have a lot more to learn.
I hope everyone is staying healthy during this Virus outbreak, it's a great time to work on our cars :D

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poboyjo65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

I believe that works out to dec ,,, & would be of 64. Coincidentally my motor tag is the same exactly as yours!
I was told they should be within a couple months of the cars build date. I see other date codes on my body of late feb & I believe it was built around mid-march judging by other vins I have found (with build dates), that are close in the last 5 digits to mine,which leads me to believe my motor may not be original. I dont have a door tag so I dont know my build date, but my vin is 5H23A561316.
What is your vin number & build date on the door tag?
Last edited by poboyjo65 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

comethead
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by comethead »

Yeah the date code of 4M is December 1964.
The 573 is the application code for an A code Comet with a manual transmission. Is that correct for your car?
There might be another date code on a machined flat pad next to the distributer. That’s the actual build date of the engine.
Like John said if you can find your casting dates on the engine block and heads along with the cars build date on the door tag you could be closer to identifying the engine as original.

Joe
1965 Caliente HT- 289/4 speed
1964 Falcon HT- track car- 302/4 speed
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poboyjo65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

comethead wrote:Yeah the date code of 4M is December 1964.
The 573 is the application code for an A code Comet with a manual transmission. Is that correct for your car?
There might be another date code on a machined flat pad next to the distributer. That’s the actual build date of the engine.
Like John said if you can find your casting dates on the engine block and heads along with the cars build date on the door tag you could be closer to identifying the engine as original.

Joe
so the 4 is the year. Joe I think you had me schooled up on that at one time but I've slept since then. But I do remember looking at the flat pad. here are a couple pics of it. I presume it decodes as
1964 /dec/26th /B= ? Joe would the B mean second shift?
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Garch65 look at the front of the driverside head.
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Last edited by poboyjo65 on Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

comethead
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by comethead »

Yeah I think that’s the shift code but I’ll look in my book to be sure.
I’m not sure what the difference is between the date code on the engine tag and the build date code on the machined pad.
The tag was there to keep track of running engineering changes and the engines application.
Guess I gotta do some more reading :lol:

Joe
1965 Caliente HT- 289/4 speed
1964 Falcon HT- track car- 302/4 speed
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garch65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Hey,
Sorry it took me so long to check on this,
I really appreciate the feed back. My Comet is a factory 4 speed.
Body 63d color-R trim-58 date- 06k DSO-54 axle-1
Trans 5
Other numbers I saw :)

Manifold- 8425-m
4J30
Order x x 6378
05AL -3425

Warranty # 5H23A517033

That’s what I could find so far, I appreciate your help and time. If it’s the original motor, I will just enjoy it. If it’s not, I may need to upgrade a bit. I got all my upholstery back in tonight and I’m 5’11”, my head is almost hitting the roof. I reinforced the front bench,So it’s firm, is it normal for new upholstery and springs to keep me up so high being new? Is there a easy solution to extend my seat back a few more inches, so I can have a bit more room? I can definitely deal with these issues but was curious being new at this. It’s been A long time since I started the interior restoration and I got to take it for a drive today, it sure felt good to be rolling again.
Thank you,
Ken

lavron
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by lavron »

garch65 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:39 am
I’m 5’11”, my head is almost hitting the roof.
My '64 is a sedan but I am 6' with a taller upper body (I guess my legs are short, but they still touch the ground) and I have a lot of headroom, I could probably wear a Stetson in the Comet :lol: of course, my car has not seen new seats since 1964.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, My first car, I have owned it since 1979!
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Performance rebuild on a BUDGET - Installed; 250-6, T-5, 8.8 LSD, MII, Air Ride - Boxes are too restrictive I would much rather think outside of them :wink:

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poboyjo65
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Location: Camden, Tenn.

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

garch65 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:39 am
Hey,
Sorry it took me so long to check on this,
I really appreciate the feed back. My Comet is a factory 4 speed.
Body 63d color-R trim-58 date- 06k DSO-54 axle-1
Trans 5
Other numbers I saw :)

Manifold- 8425-m
4J30
Order x x 6378
05AL -3425

Warranty # 5H23A517033

That’s what I could find so far, I appreciate your help and time. If it’s the original motor, I will just enjoy it. If it’s not, I may need to upgrade a bit. I got all my upholstery back in tonight and I’m 5’11”, my head is almost hitting the roof. I reinforced the front bench,So it’s firm, is it normal for new upholstery and springs to keep me up so high being new? Is there a easy solution to extend my seat back a few more inches, so I can have a bit more room? I can definitely deal with these issues but was curious being new at this. It’s been A long time since I started the interior restoration and I got to take it for a drive today, it sure felt good to be rolling again.
Thank you,
Ken
So your date code is 06k, that is oct 06 for a car build date,& motor built in dec. I'd have to guess it's not the original motor since it was built 2 months after the car was.

You would be surprised how much more room your head & legs have just by raising up the front of the seat by 1/2 - 1'' & a lot more comfy angles to. but you can make extensions for the seat tracks to move the whole thing back.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

garch65
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Good Morning,
My head hitting the headliner issue- ha
Before I reupholstered the seats, I had a lot more Room, no padding, loose springs, years of Good living. It’s all tight and pretty again...missing the loose Feel, go figure. :)
but tilting the seat by 1/2 inch is a great idea. 👍🏻-
As for the motor, it doesn’t make sense. I would
Feel a lot better about it if it was not even close to the date, but only 2 months seems to close.
Is it possible, for a delay like that on a motor back then or
Someone years ago just happen to replace the motor with something close to the date? I guess it will be a mystery, but I appreciate the help 👊🏻
One thing is for sure, I love the expressions on peoples faces seeing a Mercury rolling by.

Ken

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poboyjo65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

garch65 wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:59 am
only 2 months seems to close.
Is it possible, for a delay like that on a motor back then or
Someone years ago just happen to replace the motor with something close to the date?

Ken
Comethead Joe has a book from Bob Mannel. He said that it told that the motors should have been built within a month or so prior to the cars build date. but since all the records burnt up we cant be certain.
I think if it was me on the seats I would loosen the back legs & take off the front bolts,& slip in a 1'' spacer & then sit in it for a test. That way you could figure out what size spacer you want or if it will be good enough before you tighten everything back up. I did this with my bench seat before I went to buckets,used a half inch spacer & it helped it to feel a lot better,(but I think a little more like an inch spacer would have been better). raising the front will give more room, increase the distance between the knees & pedals, & it also leans the back of the seat back for better comfort. if you still want more leg room you could make some adapters. I made some for mine without welding anything to the tracks so if the next owner wants to take them off he can. here they are ,& second pic is with the tracks attached;
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

garch65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

One last motor question-
I found another number on my block near
My oil pan-
054E 60 1 5 E just curious if this helps?

New issue-I have a powermaster 9103 starter new due to my new headers jacking up my flywheel. Any thoughts?! Kinda frustrated- it starts perfect 2 or 3 times then grinds.
Is there a better starter recommendation?

Your pics helped me a lot regarding ideas
For my seat, you have been very helpful!
Thank you Again 😎
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poboyjo65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

garch65 wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:38 pm
One last motor question-
I found another number on my block near
My oil pan-
054E 60 1 5 E just curious if this helps?

New issue-I have a powermaster 9103 starter new due to my new headers jacking up my flywheel. Any thoughts?! Kinda frustrated- it starts perfect 2 or 3 times then grinds.
Is there a better starter recommendation?

Your pics helped me a lot regarding ideas
For my seat, you have been very helpful!
Thank you Again 😎
did you check the tab below the driverside head like the pic I posted? it is day the motor was assembled. that date by the oil pan is casting dates & part number .I think the part number is C5AE-6015-** & is cast in & a date punched on a flat behind the starter.

There are 2 different nose cones . be sure that part is right.some of the early ones were different from auto to man trans.the flex plate starter ring was at a different depth than the man flywheel starter ring. so they had different nose caps for each.
or it could be bad teeth on your flywheel/flexplate.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

garch65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

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Here is my code-

garch65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

The flywheel and the starter are pretty bad, I did a visual tonight, so maybe the flywheel had prior issues. I’m going to fix the flywheel this summer and make sure the starter is correct.
I was kinda hoping it was just a starter issue but :oops: happens.
Have a good night!

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poboyjo65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

Hey ! that's the same exact date as your build date , I think? 4k6c & build date of 06k ,I think both are oct. 06, 1964.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

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