confirming an original motor

289 - 351 cid Small Block Performance
garch65
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Good Morning,
That’s what I was thinking, I got excited but before my smile got to big, I Wanted to see what you thought.
That’s pretty amazing after all these years :D
Thanks for all your help!

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poboyjo65
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Location: Camden, Tenn.

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

Comethead or someone could verify but I think I'd trust that pad on the block under the head more than a tag that could have got changed . & maybe that isn't a date code on that tag,although mine is same M for dec on both. maybe other people could look at their tag & head pad.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

garch65
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

I agree, maybe someone else might have an opinion on the question. If any other Comet enthusiast out there has any feed back on this, it would be great!

comethead
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Location: Palmdale, CA

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by comethead »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:34 pm
Comethead or someone could verify but I think I'd trust that pad on the block under the head more than a tag that could have got changed . & maybe that isn't a date code on that tag,although mine is same M for dec on both. maybe other people could look at their tag & head pad.
Geez this thread moved quick! :lol:
I’ll dig through that book and try to confirm the date codes.

On the flywheel issue- check the part number on your bell housing. That’ll determine if you have a 164 tooth flywheel or a 157. The starter has to match your flywheel size or you’ll have problems.
Or you can actually count the teeth.
I have a diagram that shows the flywheel ring gear position on the flywheel and it’s a dead give away as to which one it is.

Joe
1965 Caliente HT- 289/4 speed
1964 Falcon HT- track car- 302/4 speed
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garch65
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

My flywheel is the 157 and my starter is a
Power master 9103 so I believe these are correct together. I’m assuming now my flywheel possible had some problems in spotted area as is doesn’t happen all the time.
Thanks for looking at the book for me Joe!

comethead wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:09 am
poboyjo65 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:34 pm
Comethead or someone could verify but I think I'd trust that pad on the block under the head more than a tag that could have got changed . & maybe that isn't a date code on that tag,although mine is same M for dec on both. maybe other people could look at their tag & head pad.
Geez this thread moved quick! :lol:
I’ll dig through that book and try to confirm the date codes.

On the flywheel issue- check the part number on your bell housing. That’ll determine if you have a 164 tooth flywheel or a 157. The starter has to match your flywheel size or you’ll have problems.
Or you can actually count the teeth.
I have a diagram that shows the flywheel ring gear position on the flywheel and it’s a dead give away as to which one it is.

Joe

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poboyjo65
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Location: Camden, Tenn.

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by poboyjo65 »

if it has bad spots on the flywheel teeth, & when you try to start it it grinds,let off as quick as you can to do less damage. then just bump it. by bumping it I mean just barely turn it to start & let off as fast as you can. usually a couple bumps will get it past the bad spot . & on that second bump you can tell by listening if it is still grinding or is now turning the flywheel ,bump it until you hear it sounding like it is turning before holding it on start till it cranks. this will get you maximum life out of the ring gear on the flywheel. I've drove cars like that for years without fixing them.
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Johno
215-60-15 on 7x15's .... 29-15-15 on 10x15's

garch65
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Good ideas! 😎

EarlyCometExposure
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Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:16 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by EarlyCometExposure »

Another way to do the labor but for no cost is to take the flywheel off and re-install it rotating it by one bolt hole pattern.
If it has 4 bolts, that would be 90 degrees rotation. If it has 5 bolt hole pattern, then 72 degrees rotation.
The motor often stops at the same position which is why one part of the flywheel gets "hit" during start more than another section.

garch65
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Good idea for some no cost longevity on the flywheel.

comethead
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by comethead »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:25 pm
comethead wrote:Yeah the date code of 4M is December 1964.
The 573 is the application code for an A code Comet with a manual transmission. Is that correct for your car?
There might be another date code on a machined flat pad next to the distributer. That’s the actual build date of the engine.
Like John said if you can find your casting dates on the engine block and heads along with the cars build date on the door tag you could be closer to identifying the engine as original.

Joe
so the 4 is the year. Joe I think you had me schooled up on that at one time but I've slept since then. But I do remember looking at the flat pad. here are a couple pics of it. I presume it decodes as
1964 /dec/26th /B= ? Joe would the B mean second shift?
Image


Garch65 look at the front of the driverside head.
Image
Hey John that “B” is the engine inspectors code.
1965 Caliente HT- 289/4 speed
1964 Falcon HT- track car- 302/4 speed
Image

comethead
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Location: Palmdale, CA

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by comethead »

poboyjo65 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:50 am
Hey ! that's the same exact date as your build date , I think? 4k6c & build date of 06k ,I think both are oct. 06, 1964.
Looking at the books I have it does look like both dates are Oct 6 1964. Crazy. But I think too much of a coincidence not to be the original engine.
Also the application code on the tag is right for the car- A code 4 speed. There could’ve been a stamping error on the tags date.

Could it be the engine was rushed to the assembly line as soon as it was built? Same day? Well there are 24 hours in a day and those factories ran 3 shifts round the clock. So not out of the realm of possibility.

I think your engine is original :D

Joe
1965 Caliente HT- 289/4 speed
1964 Falcon HT- track car- 302/4 speed
Image

garch65
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Hey Joe,

That is great news, It is really cool to have people like you who take the time to help a novice like me. When I first got the Comet, I had no clue there are numbers
That break everything down like that.
I’m the third owner, the original had it for a short time after an accident. My buddies family bought it, fixed it up and had it until he passed in 2000. His dad gave it to me 2 years ago after he passed. They lived in Spokane, Washington on a farm, with a barn load of cars. This was always there favorite one so it doesn’t completely surprise me it matches, as for you Joe- Thank You!
I’m completing the stereo system this week, I kept all the original in tact and operating, but hidden is a system for some good rock n roll.
🍻
Ken

comethead
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Re: confirming an original motor

Post by comethead »

Awesome Ken!
Looks like you’ve been entrusted with a pretty rare piece of Ford Mercury history.
A correct A code 4 speed 65 Comet isn’t a common sight.
Good luck with it and you’re welcome!

Joe
1965 Caliente HT- 289/4 speed
1964 Falcon HT- track car- 302/4 speed
Image

garch65
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: confirming an original motor

Post by garch65 »

Thanks again Joe! :D

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