a surprising disappointment

[poboyjo65]

I think you said that you had timed it once where you had close to 20'' of vacuum.but did you drive it?? try turning the dist untill you get your highest vac, then back it down a tad for steadiest needle, then do a test drive. do some fine tuning by using your timing light to know how much you turned the dist. Your going to have to test & tune to find the sweet spot. you may have reset idle & air after timing adjustments . try a few different timing settings with test drives. then you'll know where it runs best. Have you looked at the plugs?

[Tristan]

I think you said that you had timed it once where you had close to 20'' of vacuum.but did you drive it?? try turning the dist untill you get your highest vac, then back it down a tad for steadiest needle, then do a test drive. do some fine tuning by using your timing light to know how much you turned the dist. Your going to have to test & tune to find the sweet spot. you may have reset idle & air after timing adjustments . try a few different timing settings with test drives. then you'll know where it runs best. Have you looked at the plugs?

I did have it way up there but there's no way in the world that itd run that advance. The distributor was turned clear to the top radiator hose! I've checked with others running this cam and they said they had 12 vacuum with this cam at 12* timing. I'll try that though.

[popscomet]

TRISTAN,this is JMO,if your short on exsperience,then to me it would be to your advantage to put the dist in perfect timing,not a tooth off ,and the plug wires correctly on the cap,just like factory.that way you have a even playing field to start your adjustments.several other guys on here have messed with so long and as much,that they can take short cuts and get away with,and still get the same results.BUT to me when you stab a dist,(old school)STAB it in perfect timing to start with.,that way your plug wires are in order on the cap,plus all the things you read in a book on how to set this or set whatever,is based on that dist being put in the block correctly....like I said it's JMO good luck pop.....PS..if I was there ,we'd throw the timing light away grab a screw driver and a 1/2 in wrench,jump in it and when we brought it back,it would be better.jmo

[pugs65]

Tristan, I myself am learning new things as I go. Pop reminds me of my buddy's dad. He raced comets in the mid 60's. He tuned my comet the same way Pop just described. No timing light was used. Just used a flat head screwdriver and a wrench. That thing was purrin like a kitten in no time. The "Old Guys" as we call them usually know what the heck is goin on and how to make one scream, Pugs.

[Tbart]

You want a faster Comet? Many things. First, Timing should be 14 or more at idle and 38 or 40 at 3200 rpm. You will need a timing tape on your damper. My 289 ran HARD at 18 and over 40. You need gears. It took you 7 seconds to hit 6000 rpm. That Dodge pickup that you raced had a 318 or 360 with fuel injection and gears! A strong overdrive tranny with a much lower first, second gear than you have coupled with a lower geared rearend than you. Probably 3.54 or maybe 4.10. Dude, Dodges RUN! I watched your u tube vids. Your carb is dumping gas at idle. How to fix it? Take it off and sell it on ebay and buy a BRAND NEW Holley 600 Double Pumper. A Mallory Dual point with centrifugal only advance is a work of art and dead nuts dependable. I've had one on my 289 since 94 with no real problems. The tiny allen head screws can be replaced with the philips/flat screws you steal from an old 110volt duplex outlet. I like the Mallory duals so much I put one in my 351 also. If you like the pertronix, fine but they DO fail. A 64 V8 Comet hardtop weighs 3000 lbs. Light. A car starts to feel and act like a hot rod at about 1 hp per 12 lbs. From your vids I'd say you are in the 1hp pushing 20lbs range, or maybe 150 at the crank. What you want is 1 hp pushing 9 or 10 [ or 8] lbs. In other words, a solid 300 hp 289. When you have that, and 3.50 gears with a solid, no slip hard shifting trans, you will walk away from most "hot rods" on the street. Money can be tight so you want to stick with the Ed carb? It needs to be dialed in I think. Some have good luck with them. A Holley 600 DP requires no "luck". They just freaking work like no other carb ever devised. Your engine sounds healthy with a solid foundation. Edelbrock Performer is a good intake. Your stock converter will be ok with a firm shift kit in your c4. Years ago I bought a rebuilt 8" 3.55 open diff from Perogie enterprises. It was very cheap but REALLY woke up my 64 Cyclone. Later I put a Richmond Loc Rite posi in it. I hope I don't come off as Mr Knowitall but these are things I've learned that work to put a Comet in the 14s. Don't go to the dragstrip with your current setup unless you want to be really disappointed. An 18 or 19 is hard to take but you can use your initial test&tune et as a basis for your improvements. Think about this. Cruising along at 60 mph it takes 15 seconds to cover a 1/4 mile. To run a 15 flat from a dead stop in 1/4 mile means hitting over 90 mph at the end. In a 3000 lb Comet that takes some ponies. A street car that can pop a 15 at 92 mph is a runnin sumbeotch! I don't care what any bench racer says, that is honkin'. Here's a hint, you want to cross the finish in third gear at your shift point. If you had another gear,that is. A 6000 redline means this needs 4.11 or more for gears. [ a real pain for actually driving around] You can make your Comet run hard and keep its character using 3.55 or 3.40 in 8". Don't let anyone tell you the 8" isn't tough. Then, when you hit 90 mph at the end of the dragstrip, you will have plenty of other stuff to worry about, I guarantee. Good luck to you. You have a great car that will be something pretty special by the time you are done.
I am editing this to concede that 38 to 40 degrees of total timing may be way too much. Most agree that 34 works best. I am testing my methods and equipment to find out.

[Tbart]

A Holley double pumper won't work with your stock air cleaner. Maybe you could modify the base. Or use an open Hipo element. But you need a good accelerator pump shot to get moving. That may be an area to look into on your Edelbrock. Does it bog or backfire when you jab the throttle? If so, It could be the accel pump.

[Lip Ripper]

That vacuum looked low for a small cam.

[pro64]

hey Tristan your going to laugh, but if your charging system and your battery are nt up to the choir you will also be down on tire breaking power.......also ground straps make sure engine is grounded to the frame and the firewall also.....

[pro64]

timing to much is just as bad as not enough

[SASSY]

IMO

If it starts easy hot, put more timing in it
Gears!
That little short stroke needs to spin.
Get a holley

[CALIFORNIA CALIENTE]

40 degrees total is A LOT for a short stroke! When I raced my 289 it ran the best with 36 Total,12 initial,newer style aluminum heads may like 32-34 total!!I ran a 5.67 rear gear,29.5X10X15 slick,those 289s do like to spin!!! JMO , ROY.

[Tbart]

Pro64, yes, you can go too far but you will feel it. When I first started and drove the 289 I built in 94, I had no timing light. I set it by ear and backed it up a little. It was running great, idling smooth and would smoke the pass side tire with 3.00 gears. No rattle or ping whatsoever. Then I got a new timing light and started listening to conventional wisdom. My "runs great" setting I had done by ear was 18 degrees btdc. Could not measure total advance without a degree tape on the damper but later learned it was over 40. I experimented with settings, all while fearful of the dreaded detonation I had read so much about. First the factory setting of 6 btdc it would barely run, much less run hard. I crept up the timing and got better power in 2 degree increments all the way to 18. 20 would have yielded the same result I bet but I was listening to experts. I was told that 14 btdc would destroy my engine. Back then Ford SVO had a hotline you could call and I talked with a guy who told me "Look, you've got high compression, a good cam, a double pumper on a hi rise, a dual point and headers, why would you think the timing would be anything like stock? Put it where it runs the strongest and if it rattles, back it up. Use better gas if you have to." For me, that was 18 btdc. I was worried about total advance and recurved the adjustable Mallory [no vacuum] down so I had 36 total. Once again, the 289 lost top end power. I added 2 degrees to 38, it got better. It is now at a granny like 12 and 36. I no longer try to see how hard I can run my 289 and I race a 351w in a Falcon. Same type of Mallory dual point, same results. 18 and 40 makes best power and I wake up in a cold sweat because "they" say it's too much timing. Since I'm long winded and want to help Tristan, this is how I see "timing". Where the spark occurs in relation to the pistons position during the compression and power stroke. Advance is the spark igniting the fuel on the upstroke of the compression stroke. Gas does not just explode. A tiny spark starts a tiny fire that grows as the piston is coming up to TDC then reaches its full force on the downstroke or powerstroke. If your gas IS exploding, THAT is detonation and the "spark knock" or rattle you may hear. High octane gas is actually LESS explosive than regular and is able to manage higher heat and compression situations that hotrod engines create. Up to a point, the sooner that "ball of flame" gets started the more expanding gas force is exerted on the downstroke. There is a balance point that is determined by engine speed and your cam. In a hipo engine the exhaust valve opens before the piston hits bottom so it can be FULLY open on the exhaust stoke all the way back up. Likewise the intake valve will actually start to open as the piston nears the top of the exhaust stoke. They are both open a little at the TDC of the exhaust stroke. This works great at high RPM but not so good at idle and low RPM. It's very mind boggling and complex but just remember this; If you are using good fuel and your engine is responding to more timing with more power you are not hurting it,you are helping it. There is no one size fits all recipe and even stock engines are not exactly the same. This is all a balancing act that is now controlled by computers and injection and much better metal than was used in "the day". Don't feel bad Tristan, a guy I work for has a 2014 Ford F250 turbo diesel with 1000 lbs of tools that I would have to; A. Leave my spare tire and jack and toolbox and lawnchair on the curb. B. Put my Nitto drag tires on. C. Set my timing at 18 btdc if I dared to actually drag race him.

[CALIFORNIA CALIENTE]

Tbart;my 289 had an actual 12.2 to 1 compression,1.94 X 1.50 valves in highly ported [by a profeesional] early 289 heads,I ran 110 octane race fuel,at 38 my 289 started falling off,by 40 it was a slug.I was looking for any way to make a bit more power,more timing was not it!! I ran a Billet Dampner with the timing marks engraved,but I prefer my Dial-Back light with TDC marked on the dampner,that way I can measure initial timing and total timing! I DO NOT believe Tristan has much to gain by adding a lot of timing to a stone stock engine,he would probably gain more seat of the pants acceleration with gearing,at least 3.50s,and a good tune on his combo!! JMO , ROY.

[pro64]

i agree with roy,gears gears gears.....it will keep that motor twisted up and accelerate quicker,on the top end he may loose alittle but for what he wants ,gears ..... 375 s 389 s.if he is fealing rich may be a msd ignition system and play with the tuneup

[Tbart]

I do not disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is to find what works best for a particular engine. That's what has seemed to work for me. Play around and be guided by seat of the pants feel. Gears make a big difference.