Kaase P51 heads for 385-Series

[Jimbo]

I was looking into building a serious bbf without going too crazy and came across these new design cobra jet style heads. These heads are $2500 a set, but would definitely give you a mean little 460. Here is a quote from an article about them.

Ford Power Test
While flow numbers are certainly informative, there's no better way to judge the potential of big-block Ford power with these new heads than to build an engine and see the results for ourselves. Big-block Ford engines lend themselves to tremendous displacement in stroker combinations, with engines as large as 545 cid easily achieved with stock-block stroker combinations; however, we were interested to see what could be done with just your basic everyday 460. With a factory bore of 4.360 and a stroke of 3.850, the 460 Ford was one of the largest OEM engines in passenger car production. Cores for these engines are readily available and usually found at an incredible bargain, considering the displacement. The plan was to rebuild a basic production-based short-block, stuff it with a few well-chosen power parts, and top it off with these killer new heads from Jon Kaase Racing.

A seasoned stock 460 block was simply prepped with a 0.030-inch overbore and fitted with a set of Probe forged flat-top pistons, using stock Ford connecting rods. Though the rods are OEM forgings, the small ends were bushed for floating pins and new ARP bolts were installed. Inside the roomy crankcase of the 460, the OEM cast-iron crankshaft was retained. As far as the bottom end is concerned, this is just a common street-style rebuild.

Where the build took a walk on the wild side was the camshaft. To gauge the effectiveness on these high-flow cylinder heads, particularly with the relatively modest displacement of the short-block, the engine has to rev. With only 466 cubes at work below, it takes substantial rpm to begin to use up the kind of flow these heads are capable of. In light of this, a solid roller was the only choice, and here was no place to be shy about specifications. A COMP Cams grind No. FF-4420-4132-R108 roller was specified, which rates at 256/262 degrees duration at 0.050-inch tappet rise. When combined with the 1.73 ratio of a Ford big-block's rockers, the cam delivers a whopping 0.761/0.743-inch lift. This would certainly be enough action at the valves to tap into the airflow capabilities of the P51 heads.

Up top went the object of this experiment-the new P51 cylinder heads-which were simply bolted on in out-of-the-box form. As with previous generations of SVO cylinder heads, the P51 retains the production intake port size and bolt pattern, maintaining compatibility with established intake manifolds for this engine type. A box-stock Ford Motorsport single-plane 4500-pattern intake manifold topped with a 1,195-cfm King Demon carburetor provides the induction. What we have here is a generic 460 outfitted to pump a tremendous amount of air. The only question remaining was whether it would result in great horsepower.

That answer became apparent as our test session unfolded on Westech Performance Group's SuperFlow 902 engine dyno. Our objective there was to validate and tune the engine, and then let it eat for the numbers. We weren't intending to apply any parts-swapping, spacers, super-slick oils, or associated super-tuning tricks, but were sticking to the basics of dialing-in the mixture and timing. We began the test session with 100 octane fuel, to provide a safety margin with the decidedly high compression ratio and unknown tune. The first few tuning pulls proved that Ford was intent on delivering uncharacteristic power. Loaded at near peak, static, we found over 600 lb-ft of torque. For a ballpark reference, that's a good 50-plus lb-ft better than what can be considered a "very good" engine at this displacement. Dialed-in at 32 degrees of timing and jetted for a perfect mixture reading, we let it fly and saw a staggering 600 lb-ft of torque and 690 hp at 6,700 rpm.

Testing On Pump Gas
We cleared the fuel system and reloaded with ordinary 91 octane swill. True, the compression ratio was crowding 12:1, but with the generous cam timing, low ignition requirements, aluminum heads, and Kaase's blessing, we figured the engine would cooperate. The testing was repeated with low-grade fuel and there was no hint of detonation. What we did find is abundant power, given the generally humble nature of the engine. On 91 octane, Kaase's P51-equipped 460 showed us 597 lb-ft at 4,900 rpm, running up the powerband to 687 hp at 6,700 rpm. We had a basic short-block that could easily double for the one in a buddy's truck (stock block, crank, rods, and all). Take that basic genetic material, add a hard-hitting COMP roller cam, a Kaase top end, and a matching big induction, and you have a combination that makes way more power than the sum of its parts.

[Boss/Cyclone]

Not sure what your point is, this sounds like spam. Do you have something to say or are you asking opinions on Kaase products?

[Jimbo]

Not sure what your point is, this sounds like spam. Do you have something to say or are you asking opinions on Kaase products?

Spam? Just starting a topic of discussion regarding heads that are interesting to me. This is the forum to discuss big block fords I thought?
Are you perhaps paranoid, grumpy, or both?

[SASSY]

I seen a TV show,,,,,,,,I think Hot ROd TV ,but not sure about the new stuff they are doing forthe 460.
Looked awesome just like the Boss 429's but cheap to build!
I think you shoud build one and put it between the towers!!!
Use a different front suspension system Then just have the towers for looks!
Make them bolt in with like a 1/2 inch clearance and listen to the responces
Fred

[Jimbo]

I seen a TV show,,,,,,,,I think Hot ROd TV ,but not sure about the new stuff they are doing forthe 460.
Looked awesome just like the Boss 429's but cheap to build!
I think you shoud build one and put it between the towers!!!
Use a different front suspension system Then just have the towers for looks!
Make them bolt in with like a 1/2 inch clearance and listen to the responces
Fred

lol, just to get the cringe factor when people see it wedged in there. I honestly have always liked the 460, great potential, but aftermarket parts are so expensive and not that great in the power department. Isaw the p51's and they seem like a real departure from the sorry original design. It actually had me thinking about putting together a nice little 460 and spending the cash to drop these on it. Waaaay better than the dove head 460 I built years ago.

[Boss/Cyclone]

Not sure what your point is, this sounds like spam. Do you have something to say or are you asking opinions on Kaase products?

Spam? Just starting a topic of discussion regarding heads that are interesting to me. This is the forum to discuss big block fords I thought?
Are you perhaps paranoid, grumpy, or both?

Not grumpy, paranoid or anything. If you would asked if anyone had experience then I would understand. I am a moderator on another car forum and your first post simply looks like an ad for Kaase heads. If you had stated originally that you were looking for info on these heads then I would have not had a negative reaction. Quoting a huge endorsement just seemed a little odd to me. We have to self police this site since the site owner has only been on here twice in the last 6 months and the none of the 3 moderators have logged on in over a year. I am not here to start a verbal war, let's just talk Comet's. We all welcome your input and your many post in the last few days have livened up the site, this ain't a Mustang site with bullies and bashers.

[SASSY]

and the little weasel deputy walked into the saloon
saw the 2 gunfighters standing 30 feet apart ready
to draw,,,,,, The saloon was quite,smoke filled the air
from the piano players cigar, dust still settling off the
dancers shoes. a siptoon knocked over and dripping onto
the worn old planks of the barroom floor by someone running
for cover. Would they draw,would one offer to buy the other a
beer?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Boss/Cyclone]

and the little weasel deputy walked into the saloon
saw the 2 gunfighters standing 30 feet apart ready
to draw,,,,,, The saloon was quite,smoke filled the air
from the piano players cigar, dust still settling off the
dancers shoes. a siptoon knocked over and dripping onto
the worn old planks of the barroom floor by someone running
for cover. Would they draw,would one offer to buy the other a
beer?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I will buy the beers, I thought my last post was an olive branch. I guess it did not come across as so. As far as the Kaase heads they look awesome, a bit pricy, I wonder for the money how much they out flow the aluminum Cobra Jet heads and Blue Thunder heads.

[Jimbo]

Not grumpy, paranoid or anything. If you would asked if anyone had experience then I would understand. I am a moderator on another car forum and your first post simply looks like an ad for Kaase heads. If you had stated originally that you were looking for info on these heads then I would have not had a negative reaction. Quoting a huge endorsement just seemed a little odd to me. We have to self police this site since the site owner has only been on here twice in the last 6 months and the none of the 3 moderators have logged on in over a year. I am not here to start a verbal war, let's just talk Comet's. We all welcome your input and your many post in the last few days have livened up the site, this ain't a Mustang site with bullies and bashers.

I didn't state that because I was not looking for more info. Is reading an ad for Kaase heads somehow offensive? I'm sorry it was a long quote, but I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to share it with others that have similar interests and perhaps discuss it. That is what I normally do on discussion forums, even on my bullying and bashing mustang sites.
I will lessen the frequency of my posts and I apologize for being an excited newb poster.

[Jimbo]

and the little weasel deputy walked into the saloon
saw the 2 gunfighters standing 30 feet apart ready
to draw,,,,,, The saloon was quite,smoke filled the air
from the piano players cigar, dust still settling off the
dancers shoes. a siptoon knocked over and dripping onto
the worn old planks of the barroom floor by someone running
for cover. Would they draw,would one offer to buy the other a
beer?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I will buy the beers, I thought my last post was an olive branch. I guess it did not come across as so. As far as the Kaase heads they look awesome, a bit pricy, I wonder for the money how much they out flow the aluminum Cobra Jet heads and Blue Thunder heads.

lol, I'm always up for beers. I understand the "protecting your website position" and the tone that comes with it, and I respect it.

As for the heads, apparently they flow a ton, even the blue thunders are based on the old restrictive design. These are apparently something totally new.
Even the visual is drastically different:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0 ... index.html

[CALIFORNIA CALIENTE]

The Kaase heads offer great potential as do the Blue Thunder heads.I know of a local racer using basically as cast BTs on a 605 in a 61 Starliner that runs deep into the 9s.I also have a good friend that runs C/Gas[9.60 index],69 Cougar,tube chassis, with a Ford crate 514 pump gas with the Ford aluminum CJ heads. The 385 series engine has great potential,they are just HUGE and heavy,I've seen them in a Comet-Falcon chassis but they were usually using a strut type suspension and a tube chassis. Jimbo;as Boss said,we just police ourselves to keep the site friendly and clean of spam or unwanted adds.He is very active on here and I believe he didn't mean anything derogatory towards you.This is the best and most useable and active Comet site on the net,I would hate to see it fold. ROY.

[SASSY]

The TV show I saw ,they were building sorta copies of the BOSS 429 head
This is diferent

[CALIFORNIA CALIENTE]

Fred;John Kaase is a big time enthusiast of the 385 series engine.He makes both the wedge and Boss style heads and gets HUGE power from both.He is also a big Cleavland style engine builder,he has won the Engine Masters build off a few times with a 400" Cleaveland.Now if we could all have major money backers we could afford big horse power engines!!!! YEE HAW!!!! ROY.

[SASSY]

Ya,,,,,,,the lottery!
Thats how ya do it!!!!

[tweaked]

On facebook Jon Kaase was letting people know about the the car show that featured a Boss 9 motor going into a cougar. I posted back and offered my comet as good place for a Boss 9 motor___no reply .
Roger