Lavron's '64 Build Thread

[lavron]

OK in my never-ending quest to apparently jump all over on my car planning, I have an old 28" tire off a Jeep so I thought I would see how the would semi fit on the car (it is a 5 bolt wheel)

The Jeep wheel is an 8" wheel with, I think, 5" or more of back space, I just sat it in there both ways, and yes I was able to mostly get it under there.


With the wheel flipped backward it won't quite go back far enough because of the lug studs but I could position it front to back where I thought it could go without rubbing in the front, it looks like moving the axle back about 1" to 2". Realize I would want it more up inside the well than I could do here.

I flipped the wheel the proper direction.

I could actually tuck it in there but the hub would come down on the rim when I tried to lower the car to ride hight and center the tire in the opening.

So what did I learn from my test? 28" tires look huge, at 10" they would be a bite to get in there, I would have to set the axle back a bit, mini tubs will work fine, I shouldn't have to move my frame inboard for them to fit (at least mostly). And that I think I will go with a slightly smaller tire, a 255/60R15 is 27"X10" (9 inch tread) will still prob move the axle back about an inch and do the tubs.

I think a set of 8" wheels with 3.75 to 4" of backspace should be fine.

On front then I will switch to 215/60R15 (might consider a 70 series even) but haven't checked the front yet to see what backset on a set of 7" wheels I would need.

I can get those sizes in Radial TA which I kinda like because they look more classic

See Ya,
Mike

[Lou's Comet]

When I was doing mine I looked more at the section width of tires, not the tread width. The section/overall width IMO is what you want to look at. And the section width will change with rim width. The manufacturers will give you a section width on a spec, certain sized wheel. For example the tire you are looking at has a 10.2 section width on a 7.5" wide wheel.

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-sel ... #techspecs

Now if you put the same tire on a 8" wide wheel the section width would be grow to about 10.4". For every 1/2" you add or subtract from rim width the section width will go up or down .2"

If section width is 10.2" on 7.5" wide spec wheel it would be 10" on a 7" wide wheel and 10.4" on a 8" wide wheel. Etc.

Also do you plan on moving your springs in?? Spring relocation? Cause not sure on a 1964 but on my 65 the springs were the limiting item for tire clearance on the inside, not the tub. If your not moving your springs I don't think mini tubbing would help.

[lavron]

Also do you plan on moving your springs in?? Spring relocation? Cause not sure on a 1964 but on my 65 the springs were the limiting item for tire clearance on the inside, not the tub. If your not moving your springs I don't think mini tubbing would help.

Haven't put that up yet but most likely will get rid of the leafs, still planning that.

Looking at tires is making me crazy, if I like one tire for the rear that brand does not have a matching tire in the size I want for the front. Always I have wanted to put 16" or 17" wheels on the rear and 15" on the front, I have pretty much abandoned that idea because I can't find the wheels I want (stock car style) in anything bigger than 15" and I really don't want to spend the money for custom made wheels. As it stands right now Radial T/A has the upper hand because they have the correct sizes I want, but of course they are more expensive than some of the others but they are cheaper than Mickey Thompson Tires (MTs might be a bit cooler tire however) I think my rear axle ('71 Maverick) is a bit shorter than the Comet one but not sure how much, and I have been doing some measuring and think I can get a 13" wide tub in there with maybe just trimming a bit off the side of the rear frame where it kicks over, without leaf springs the back half of the frame will just be holding the gas tank and bumper.

Right now I am wanting to build a triangulated 4 link for the rear, I have been shopping out all the parts and pretty much know what I want to do except (and you guys can suggest on this) whether to do coil overs or separate coils and shocks, I was wondering with separate shocks if I could pretty much use standard shocks in the current location? But is a coil over a better design for handling? Also I have a 1" sway bar on the rear of the car already, not sure it should stay or go?

See Ya,
Mike

[Rocket989]

How big is the front bar? 1" is a big ole honker for the back!! I'm dubious of anything bigger than 5/8 rear for our cars (if street driven) and even then I'd give some harder turns a test in a safe place. Only leaf spring car I remember when I was a kid that had a rear bar added was a little a** happy if you pushed it!! Easy driving, it was fine. Look at the Boss 302...bigger, heavier car and had a 5/8 bar out back.

Sticky tires and on a track though...sure!!

Regarding the 4-link...I think it has more potential all the way around. You can push hard on a decent leaf setup though. In the end, it's your car - do what YOU want!!


JH

[Lou's Comet]

With no leaf springs and close to 13" tub space your should be able to fit the 28-10-15 MT SR's

Looking at their specs the MT 12-28-15 SR section with on a 8" wide wheel is 10.3", .1" less than the TA on a 8" wide wheel. They also make a 12-26-15 SR with same section width as the 12-28-15 but Dia is less and they say tread is .1" wider on the 26" dia.

https://www.mickeythompsontires.com/str ... portsmanSR

I was looking the MT SR's as a choice for my car. The tread is cool! And for the size I was looking at tread was wider than same size in the Hoosier pro street. But found a used set Hoosiers cheap and the tread on the hoosier is more old school and fits my build better. The MT's have a more modern tread. But for your build I think the more modern tread would be better. With the more modern suspension and such.

With all the choices tires can just drive YA nuts lol

Lou

[SASSY]

YA don't think ya'll be needing the 1 inch rear bar,,,.
I don't think GT 350s even used a rear bar.
Fred

[lavron]

How big is the front bar? 1" is a big ole honker for the back!! I'm dubious of anything bigger than 5/8 rear for our cars (if street driven) and even then I'd give some harder turns a test in a safe place. Only leaf spring car I remember when I was a kid that had a rear bar added was a little a** happy if you pushed it!! Easy driving, it was fine. Look at the Boss 302...bigger, heavier car and had a 5/8 bar out back.
Sticky tires and on a track though...sure!!
Regarding the 4-link...I think it has more potential all the way around. You can push hard on a decent leaf setup though. In the end, it's your car - do what YOU want!!
JH

I have a 1" bar on front and I won't swear the rear is 1" I put it on there a long time ago, I am a pretty easy driver I guess, I could not really tell that big a difference when I added it, but my memory might be faulty (in that I can't remember how it drove before I put it on there).

As far as a 4-link, like most stuff, is something I just want too do unless someone can give me a reason not too (well leaving the leafs would be cheaper & I had them rebuilt many moons ago). Concerning 4-links I intend to go with hiem joints all the way around except the front lower I was going to do a bushings, is that a bad idea? I see them with one or the other usually but did not know if there would be harm in mixing them or if having a bushing would eliminate the effectiveness of the heims everywhere else? Once I get everything together (parts list) I will put a list up and you guys can shoot it down for me

I was looking the MT SR's as a choice for my car. The tread is cool! And for the size I was looking at tread was wider than same size in the Hoosier pro street. But found a used set Hoosiers cheap and the tread on the hoosier is more old school and fits my build better. The MT's have a more modern tread. But for your build I think the more modern tread would be better. With the more modern suspension and such.

With all the choices tires can just drive YA nuts lol

Lou

You are right about the nuts thing I really like the look of the MT SR thinking of it on a black stock car wheel would look fast and mean on a pedal car so I might just be able to leave my motor out of my car and just sit around with it looking cool, it would be a bite going from place too place however.

See Ya,
Mike

[lavron]

OK, Summit Racing has Mastercraft Avenger G/T Tires, I like the price and they have good reviews on the site. The cheap in me says these would be fine, they are tires after all, easy to change later and the sizes are pretty close to right.

REAR - P255/60R15 - $116, FRONT - P215/65R15 - $99, Free shipping from Summit as well.

Would fit the wheels I want and pretty much any tire I have looked at will.

Speedway Motors has the Bassett Racing Wheels (DOT) REAR 8" - 5 on 4.5" - 3.5" Backspacing (might do 4" BS need to go measure) - $65, FRONT 7" - 5 on 4.5" - 3.75" BS - $56 not sure what shipping would add.

I think I will stop with my specs to the local tire shop and see what kind of deal they would give me as well.

See Ya,
Mike

[lavron]

Been working on the 4-Link plans, just about have it planned, so now I am wondering about something else With the 4-link it is going to be a bite to get the exhaust over the rear axle, if I even can.

Do you guys think it would be too loud inside the car dumping my exhaust right in front of the rear axle, or out the sides? I actually don't know how well I would like them out the sides and don't think they would be any quieter there.

I am looking for something that would not drone too bad on long trips down the highway (I have high hopes) mostly not for me but for my wife.

Any mufflers you guys like? I have glass packs on there right now all the way back by the gas tank.

I also like how this exhaust is done, I have the same header as this car I believe, I think this is 2 1/2" pipe but I would run 2"



See Ya,
Mike

[lavron]

Anyone know anything about this place and wheels?

http://www.coyswheel.com/coys-c5-1415.html

See Ya,
Mike

[poboyjo65]

I think you should be able to go over the axle with your pipes. Mine was tight, after moving the frame rails & shock mounts in 5 in each ,but I was able to get 2 1/2'' pipe to the back. I ordered some 4 ft straight pc's & some u bends from jegs. With the mufflers under backseat they dumped just right to go over the axle. I had to make several welds but it was easier than expected & fun,,fun because I did it for less than half of what a shop would have charged. I did all of the welding on the work bench,but it took more time cutting & grinding,crawling under the car for fitment than welding. even with all my pieces welded I think it is less restrictive than typical non mandrel bent pipes ,like most muffler shops do . & I didn't have to worry about some idiot welding a muffler hanger to my newly sealed bottom of car floors.

[Rocket989]

You can probably control most of the drone and loudness via muffler choice. Big ole long traditional glass packs are pretty quiet IMO. Leaving max performance out of the quest, the old Sonic Turbo/ Thrush Hush "turbo" mufflers sound good on 6's too...not overly loud and no drone that I remember.

Here's a vid of a 'Stang with a hopped-up 200ci, dual-out header, and Dynomax turbos:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hryWtpwVdkY

That guy musta sucked up a months worth of exhaust fumes makin' that video!!

JH

[lavron]

Big ole long traditional glass packs are pretty quiet IMO.

The current ones are not too bad if I remember correctly, haven't heard it run for a while

I think you should be able to go over the axle with your pipes. Mine was tight, after moving the frame rails & shock mounts in 5 in each ,but I was able to get 2 1/2'' pipe to the back.

My problem is on the triangulated 4 link is the top bars going from the top of the rear differential to the frame rails, I can't visualize in my head the pipes missing everything

See Ya,
Mike

[lavron]

So after checking prices on building a 4-link for my Comet, I looked at buying brackets from welder series, I considered making my own but then I went ahead and ordered one of these, http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-1965-Ford- ... 1901255422 I figured if the brackets and hardware are not total junk it was worth $150, I will let you know when I get it.

From my calculations the lower bars are a bit long, but if I need to I will buy chrome molly bars from Speedway Motors and replace them, I would like adjustable bars anyway, (these have one adjusting end) but thought it really is not that important because I will most likely get them set and not mess with them again.

The second thing I am researching is rear springs/coilovers/airbags, I am leaning toward an airbag/spring spring right now, not to lower the car (eg. lowrider) but for the smoothness of ride and some adjustability. I searched the forum and can't find anyone here that has done it, my internet searches have not been real fruitful either as far as selecting rate (this goes for regular springs as well) and I am not sure how to figure that out, I don't have to worry about it until way later but was guessing I could base my rates off the stock leaf springs which I found, capacity 710#, and rate 72 (whatever the rate is, pounds?), however some of the air springs I have found are rated at like 1200#, did not see any that were under about 800# so really not sure what one chooses and if those are rated differently.

I have zero experience with air suspension past putting air shocks on the rear of my Comet. So just wondering if I should guinea pig this project on here? If I could find pre-engineered stuff that would be too easy and most likely too expensive for a cheap skate like me

There are several on eBay like this; http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Weld-On-Ai ... 1901255422 have no idea if these are too heavy duty

Anyway, if anyone has experience with this comment and let me know

See Ya,
Mike

[Jims65cyclone]

The spring rate is a measure of the "softness" of a spring. It's defined as the number of pounds of force or weight required to deflect the spring one inch. So, the example you gave for the 750# leaf spring with a spring rate of 72 means that it takes 72 pounds of load to deflect the spring 1 inch. Therefore, for springs with the same load capacity, the smaller the spring rate number, the softer the spring.
Jim